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Hesitation on shifts from 1st to 2nd
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14051		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Hesitation on shifts from 1st to 2nd
Hi guys,

after putting in the new motor and disconnecting the cable shifter on my 62 Lancer, I have a little problem with shifts from 1-2nd (atleast its more noticeable than from 2-3). When I'm leaning on the accelerator a bit, the shift will start, and then pause while the engine revs and then drop into gear. I've tried adjust the kickdown linkage to make it longer, and its so long now it has play when the throttle rod is at its idle position.

My guess is the shifter cable is misadjusted. Am I in the right ballpark? Oh yes, and I checked the fluid level in the trans, its full.

I'm a total novice with automatic transmissions and have no idea how to address this problem. Help please!

MJ
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
A maladjusted shift cable might cause this, but it's a very worrisome symptom. Maladjusting the kickdown linkage was not the right thing to do, put it back the way it's supposed to be.

Try driving around with the "2" button pressed and take note of the 1-2 shift quality. If the slow/sloppy shift symptom goes away, then it's probably just a question of the shift cable being maladjusted. If the symptom does not go away, you've got bigger problems—potentially much bigger. Fix it quickly; every time it "drops out" in the middle of a shift, transmission parts are being subjected to extremely rapid and severe wear.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hesitation on shifts from 1st to 2nd
Quote:
...and its so long now it has play when the throttle rod is at its idle position. MJ
I don't understand this part. Lengthening the rod is the right thing to do, but what you describe sounds like you shortened it. :? Yes, the shift cable could be maladjusted, but I'd suspect the fluid line pressure in the trans. Did you change the fluid and filter? The transmixer may be on it's last leg. To check the shift adjustment look for an improvement in shift whilst holding the lever just to the right or left of the "D" detent on the shifter (assuming column, if floor shift do the same thing only slightly fore or aft of the detent.)

D/W[/i]
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
No, there's not an echo in here! :roll: Dan the man just beat me to what we both basically sed...

GMTA :idea: :lol:

D/W
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
ok i'll give that a try. I figured it was a cable and not something more dramatic since it worked just fine before the swap.

The pan I have takes substantially more fluid that the original pan, and it does not have a filter extension on it.

I'll let you guys know. That'd really be a bummer to have the trans going. =/

MJ
Author:  Jeb [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Lancerman, did you ever get the carb setup tuned correctly? Will it hol you back in the seat yet? Don't scare your son too bad. :wink:
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah the carb setup is going well and yes indeed, it does push ya back. luckily, matty's carseat gives him plenty of headrest protection ;-) He loves sitting in the back though...all kinds of stuff he can see. We went to the grocery store and when we walked out he started saying "DaDa DaDa!" and pointing at the car. So we're good to go ;-)

Now to fix this trans!

MJ
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, here's an update.

Putting the car in 2nd gear only does not produce the problem. Put it back in drive, I get the slippage. Which then made me think more closely to see if its actually slipping from 2->3 vs. 1->2. The 1->2 shift seems to happen so early under easy acceleration that perhaps I'm not noticing it shift under hard acceleration and its actually the 2->3 shift that's causing me problems.

Either way, I didn't get to the car until late tonight and didn't think to double check I had the right gear change in mind. I'll go back tomorrow and see if its slipping from 2->3rd. If it is, would that be a cable tension being too loose type of problem?

Sorry for the stupidity here.

MJ
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
...now it sounds more like a kickdown length/geometry problem. @ carb WOT, the lever on the trans should be at or near its rearward stop (as a starting point).

D/W
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:53 am ]
Post subject: 
ok then i'll crawl down there and do some adjusting. I'll report back!
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ok, here's an update.

Putting the car in 2nd gear only does not produce the problem. Put it back in drive, I get the slippage. Which then made me think more closely to see if its actually slipping from 2->3 vs. 1->2. The 1->2 shift seems to happen so early under easy acceleration that perhaps I'm not noticing it shift under hard acceleration and its actually the 2->3 shift that's causing me problems.
OK, well, your kickdown linkage is definitely too short. That may or may not be the whole problem here, but you need to fix that before you can evaluate further.

A good rule of thumb is that with the amount of accelerator needed to keep up with traffic when the light turns green on an open 45mph road, the 1-2 shift should occur at 13 to 18 mph, and the 2-3 shift at 23 and 29 mph. Towards the lower speeds with a 3.23 or 2.93 rear axle ratio, and towards the higher speeds with a 2.76.

Remember, your early-style kickdown linkage is usually adjusted up top, though there's a slide bar and nut just where the firewall transitions to the floorpan if you need more adjustment.

If you still get shift flare-up with the kickdown adjusted properly, and your 1-2 shift is OK in "2" but not in "D", then it's probable that your shift cable is not quite pulling the manual valve all the way out of "N" and into "D", causing low line pressure.
Author:  CrAlt [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
ok i'll give that a try. I figured it was a cable and not something more dramatic since it worked just fine before the swap.

The pan I have takes substantially more fluid that the original pan, and it does not have a filter extension on it.

I'll let you guys know. That'd really be a bummer to have the trans going. =/

MJ
DBL check the fluid level...maybe add some more.
Author:  NewLancerMan [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
its topped off and good. I've gotta pull the pan and see what's happening with the kickdown..just haven't had time

MJ
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
its topped off and good. I've gotta pull the pan and see what's happening with the kickdown..just haven't had time

MJ
:?:

Why not just make the rod longer?

D/W
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
NLM and I have had extensive offline discussions of what's going on with his trans. Adjusting the kickdown linkage length has no effect at all on his transmission's shifting behaviour: It short-shifts with flare-up between the gears and wil not kick down. That means the head of the kickdown valve has slipped out of the claw on the kickdown lever inside the trans, which sometimes happens when the kickdown linkage is disconnected for an engine or trans swap. He will have to drop the pan, loosen the valve body and reattach the lever to the valve.
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