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C-Body Disc Brakes
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Author:  FrankRaso [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  C-Body Disc Brakes
I have a 1972 340 Duster (engineless, former BB drag car) and my donor car for the replacement 440 is a 1978 New Yorker. I was researching brake upgrades and came across 2 references to c-body brakes in Mopar Suspensions (S-A Design Books 1984) by Mike Martin.

p 67 (continuation of Front B-brakes for the A-body)
Brakes even larger than the 11-inch passenger-car brakes (such as those used on the C-body Fury or Monaco police cars) can be installed if the socket in the lower control arm is machined to accept the larger C-body lower ball joint.

p 71-72 (continuation of Summing Up the Mechanicals)
For all-out A-Body brakes, use a 4-1/2 bolt pattern and the larger B-Body disc-drum brakes. B-Body and E-Body cars must use either the disc-drum combination (very adequate for an A-engine car) or the 11-inch drum brakes on all four wheels. Because of the added weight of B- and E-Bodies, nothing less is acceptable. The ultimate stock system for all A-, B-, and E-Body cars is the C-Body police-car disc/drum system.

Has anyone used c-body disc brakes in their brake upgrade?
Author:  gmader [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  rotors are REALLY thick
You would need the C body caliper, and caliper bracket. I don't know if these bolt up to the A or B spindle. You will need to check.
Author:  andyf [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
C body stuff doesn't fit on any A/B or E body car without a ton of work. The C body knuckle is a lot taller so you would have to move some things around and the lower ball joint/steering arm is different so things would change there too. You can't put C body rotors on a B/E spindle since the dimensions are different.

The Kit Car circle track stuff did use C body (or maybe van) stuff up front but that was full on custom stuff with fabricated suspension components etc.

If you want killer brakes these days you just need some money in your bank account and my phone number! Here is an example of the stuff I build for guys.



Image
Author:  makapip [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  disk brakes
also hotrodsusa.com has wilwood disk brakes that bolt on
to the existing spindle.
Author:  FrankRaso [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I didn't think that it would take a ton of work to make c-body brakes work from what little I have learned so far. I believe the extent of the lower control arm machining is reaming out the ball joint socket. As for the upper control arm, RMS (at www.bigblockdart.com) said that they could easily fabricate a tubular arm to fit the bigger upper ball joint.

As I have a 340 Duster, I already have the 4-piston disc brakes but I would like to use BBP wheels. With the added power of the 440, I thought the New Yorker brakes would be a relatively economical upgrade. With the taller knuckle, I know it will affect handling but I don't know in what way. Apparently the slightly taller B-body spindle provides a higher roll center and higher caster gain which should improve cornering.

B-Body Spindle vs A-Body Spindle Comparison

Andyf - About what does the brake upgrade in the photo cost?
Author:  andyf [ Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well first of all, Mike Martin's book is full of errors and omissions so tread carefully. For example, he spends a bunch of time in his book talking about how to modify the A body upper control arms to use the B body brakes. He must have been embarrassed to find out that all a person really needs to do is to grab a set of big ball joint arms from a 1973 or newer A body.

The best value brake system for an A body is the late model knuckles with the big 11.75 rotors. The whole swap is detailed out on the Mopar Action website. The 11.75 swap is very economical but it is heavy. If you want to shed some weight then you can use my Wilwood conversion kit. The WW kit will work for cars that aren't driven too hard but if you're road racing you can't use the WW calipers as they'll overheat quite quickly. (unless the car is super light. Lou has had good luck with my WW on 11.75 kit but he has a fairly unique car)

I don't think the C body brakes are going to go on an A body without a big fight. If you use the C body lower ball joint then you'll have to solve a bunch of steering issues. I would probably be easier to modify the knuckle to use the A body lower ball joint. If you use a 1973 knuckle then you don't need to modify the upper control arm. 1973 and earlier C body cars used the common 772 ball joint that B body cars use as well as the later model A body cars.

Personally I don't see any particular reason to use the C body brakes on an A body. Put the late model B body 11.75x1.00 brakes on there first. If you cook them then step up to one of the aftermarket kits such as Baer or my stuff. The 13 x 1.250 kit that I showed above with the late model Viper calipers is going to work for cars that are very, very fast. I have that kit on several road race cars that run in the 130+ mph range on road race tracks. That front kit is about $1900 complete.
Author:  james longhurst [ Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
andy-
i gotta say i LOVE my brakes! just got the swinger running the first of the month and couldn't be happier with the brakes. i did have a bit of trouble with ordering the ss hoses from OFS, but they went out of their way to make it right and were a pleasure to deal with.

-james

Image[/img]
Author:  andyf [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
James,

Hey that looks great on your car. That is the first picture I've seen of your setup. Do you need center caps for your rims? I can't remember if we talked about those or not.

Has Lou seen your brakes yet? I assume you guys know each other since you're both in Chapel Hill and both are mods on this board.
Author:  Guest [ Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep, we're in touch. I even drove James' car once but didn't test the brakes TOO hard. Fun to have two A-body builders/developers around!

Sorry I've been outta touch for so long, Andy. Will send you email in the next week.

Lou
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
That's me in the last post. On the road again....

Lou
Author:  james longhurst [ Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:57 am ]
Post subject: 
lou-
a couple more beers and i don't think i'd care if you sent me thru the windscreen! next time...

yeah andy, we talked about the caps. i really would like a set if you're set up to turn some out. i have a few more pics but can't remember to post them. :roll:

-james
Author:  andyf [ Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I have the caps in stock now as a regular part number. Shoot me an email for pricing at the arengineering.com address.

Image
Author:  andyf [ Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Here is what they look like on the car. (you can barely see the cap hiding behind the Doug Nash shift lever)

Image
Author:  james longhurst [ Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
here is a more recent thumbnail, although not as close up. click it and see.

Image

-james
Author:  andyf [ Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Looks great. What size tires are you running on there? 245/45? Do you have any interference problems between the tire and the fender?

The stance sure looks great. I assume you had some spacers made for the rear wheels? Or did you go with a b body rear end?
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