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| KH Brakes https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15584 |
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| Author: | dakight [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | KH Brakes |
Earlier this week, while on a road trip to the Holiday Bowl, I picked up a set of KH Front disk brakes, complete with spindles, new ball joints, new rotors, and upper control arms with new upper ball joints. These are intended for my 62 Valiant. I've spent about the last hour looking through the archives for information. I gotta say, I learned a lot more about bicycles than I did about Master Cylinders but I did pick up a couple of nuggets. For simplicty I intend stay with a manual setup, at least for the short term; I figure I can switch to power later if I find it necessary. I have determined that I probably want a 1" master cylinder which seems to be the standard for 67 - 70 A body cars. My question is do I want the MC for a Power Disk application or for a manual drum application? I didn't find anything for manual disks and as far as I remember that was not an option. Also, I'm a little confused about the "combination valve" and the proportioning valve; are these one and the same or do I need one of each or either one or the other? Reading the description on the Master Power Brakes site it looks like they do the same thing. They also list a residual pressure valve but I thought that was done by the Master Cylinder. Some straight factual information will be appreciated. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:57 am ] |
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Nonpower was standard equipment with the KH disc brakes, and such setups work great. I prefer them this way (without a booster). The 1" bore masters are getting hard to find; the 15/16" and 1-1/32" bore items are easier to get. I try to run the 1" items when possible. Combination valve, yes, it was used starting in '67 ('65-'66 cars with the KH front discs had a separate adjustable proportioning valve). The combo valve's main job is to route hydraulic pressure to the fronts and rears appropriately. It was also nominally used as a proportioning valve, but is not very effective at that function (Chrysler took an engineering shortcut here). If you're running 9" (original) rear brakes, you can leave them be. If you've got 10" rear brakes, install 13/16" or 7/8"-bore rear wheel cylinders to eliminate the chronic A-body rear brake lockup that occurs with the standard 15/16" rear cylinders with front discs—the cylinder swap is more effective and less fiddly than adding an inline proportioning valve; it is also easier. Front brake friction material selection is critical; most of the "lifetime" / "premium" pads available today are far too hard and will chew up rotors and cause a hard, "dead" brake pedal. Organic pads are still out there, though they're getting harder to find; you just have to do "asbestos" you can! |
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| Author: | dakight [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
So what you're telling me is that if I retain the standard 9" rear drums I really don't need a proportioning valve? Parts America list both a Cardone and a Bendix Master Cylinder but they are remanufactured... they don't list a new one except for drum brakes or power disks. I guess I'll check Rock and a couple of other sites. Any suggestions on a good source for pads? These have decent pads now, probably about 80%, but in anticipation of the next pad change I would much rather buy pads a little more frequently than to have to replace the rotors which appear to be getting tougher to find and more expensive. *edit* I just looked at Parts America again and they do have the organic pads. It was also interesting to discover that those same pads are apparently used on mid-60s Falcon, Mustang, Comet, and Cougar. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:40 am ] |
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Quote: So what you're telling me is that if I retain the standard 9" rear drums I really don't need a proportioning valve?
No, I'm saying you don't need an additional prop valve or wheel cylinder swap if you've got 9" rear drums, but you do want a rear cylinder swap if you've got 10" rears. In either case, it's best to install the standard A-body prop valve/splitter assembly. Quote: Parts America list both a Cardone and a Bendix Master Cylinder but they are remanufactured.
Yucky.Quote: source for pads?
Good question...I've just about run through my stock of old Chrysler pads. Quote: the rotors which appear to be getting tougher to find and more expensive.
Naw...they're a great deal more available and less expensive than a few years ago!Quote: same pads are apparently used on mid-60s Falcon, Mustang, Comet, and Cougar.
Yep! Same rotors (with different stud drilling), too.
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| Author: | Pierre [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've had good luck with my bendix pads on KH setup - they are semi-metallic but make no noise and rotor wear is good I want to try some of those "green stuff" pads I have heard great things about those. |
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| Author: | NewLancerMan [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:31 pm ] |
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| Author: | dakight [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:56 pm ] |
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Menko, Thanks for that part number... I've been scouring web sites looking for the right MC and all I could find was reman... For the short term I intend to use the pads that are already in the calipers, they're about 80% so they still have some life left in them. I also need to pick up a proportioning valve, as well as hoses, hard lines and control arm bushings. I'm not sure when I will actually start installing these, probably in the spring. My immediate plans are to get the motor and transmission going and swapped into the car. That will take at least a couple of months, maybe more depending on how the budget works out. One of my Christmas gifts was an overhaul kit so at least I only have to pay for the machine shop work and the cam - I'm going to TRY to get that all done this month. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:12 pm ] |
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Doing some more looking here... that part looks to me to be remanufactured... I'd rather have new if I can find one. What make/model did you use to find that one? |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:11 pm ] |
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Maybe take the 'R' of the front of the part number and you'll have the non-remanufactured cylinder.......... |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:59 pm ] |
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Check the usual retailers - I know MP makes a 15/16" and 1 1/32" new units - willwood or others may make a 1" one. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
MP Brakes has one with a 1" bore but at $90.00 it's at the high end of the price range for comparable new units from Raybestos and Bendix. It's definitely a possibility but I'm not in a huge hurry so, I'll keep looking for now. NAPA has several on their website but they don't give any details about which brake system they fit or what the bore size is; a visit to the store might help clear things up. |
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| Author: | sandy in BC [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:17 pm ] |
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My NAPA mbc for a 75 Dart without booster has worked well for 5 years. |
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| Author: | NewLancerMan [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:37 pm ] |
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yeah the problem was for me that I couldn't find any 1" stock MBC--does anyone know of an application? When I was doing it, they all seemed to be either 15/16" or 1 1/32". I'm not sure what application that wagner came off of, since gearhead just posted the p/n. If you can find a 1" non-reman that's great! But if not, I'll probably stick with this and be happy enough. MJ |
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| Author: | CStryker [ Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:44 pm ] |
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I completely understand (and even reccomend) staying away from some things that are remanned (CARBS, alternators, starters, etc.), but in my experience, reman master cylinders have a very low failure rate. I have seen just about equal numbers of new and reman go bad. |
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