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starter size problem with my dual Dutra duals
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16088		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Flyntgr [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  starter size problem with my dual Dutra duals
Can anyone tell me which mini Mopar or mini aftermarket starter will fit with some clearance at the rear DDD exhaust manifold? The mini Mopar starters I have tried from NAPA have the solenoid mounted on top and obstruct any possible clearance of the exhaust pipe flange. It is no better than the old large starter that came on the slant 6 (1962 Signet 225 replaced by a 1974 225). Please help! The motor is installed, but we are at an impasse over the starter/exhaust problem. Thank you one and all!
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: starter size problem with my dual Dutra duals
Quote:
Can anyone tell me which mini Mopar or mini aftermarket starter will fit with some clearance at the rear DDD exhaust manifold? The mini Mopar starters I have tried from NAPA have the solenoid mounted on top and obstruct any possible clearance of the exhaust pipe flange.
All those Nippondenso starters are arranged the same way, with the solenoid on top. It cannot be relocated or reclocked There are two different sizes of the mini starter, though, there's a longer one and a shorter one. The shorter one may create enough clearance for you. What've you been asking for at NAPA?

Note also that the "DDD" manifold (=you're not using the stock rear-half) has a very large flange casting that can be cut down to the size you actually need. That will provide more clearance, too.
Author:  Pierre [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
http://www.dutra.org/doug/doug-sl6-exha ... -duals.htm

Bottom right, it'll clear but barely....
Author:  Flyntgr [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  starter size problem
Thanks guys for the tips. Can either of you tell me which starter is shorter than the other? I need a year and type of vehicle, or a NAPA part number, as we haven't been able to figure out which one is shorter. The car is close to being a runner, so I'm trying to get'er done. Thanks again!
Author:  Pierre [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shorter or longer makes no differnece in your case of DDD interference - its not the back of the starter thats causing the problem its the side....

Make (or buy, there are some already made for sale) a shield like Doug has in the picture, then wrap the exhaust pipe in header wrap and you should be ok.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Fyi...
I went to the junkyard and got a starter off a 5.2L '94 dakota and it had a stock aluminum heat sheild on it, oddly enough...yet the one from a 1993 5.9L Ram did not....

Odd bit of 'trivia' for you.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Flyntgr [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  starter size problem
Thanks again, DI, I have sent this email to my mechanic who is doing the installation. I do appreciate the help you guys give to me and others. Cuddo's to youse. Flyntgr
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I sent you a PM showing what has already been covered. (thanks everyone)
Yes, Dual Dutra manifolds make it difficult to route the rear exhaust pipe over the starter. You have to come off the flange with an upward curve to the pipe in order to clear the starter, then route the pipe from there. What size pipe are you trying to use?

I always use a heat shield seeing as the pipe ends up so close to the starter.
Bottom line, you need some "creative" exhaust pipe work but it can be done. In fact, I just made a set to fit in the 62 Lancer I am working on. This is the 4th set of these pipes that I have personally done.
DD
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Don't know if this will help, but if additional clearance is needed for the connection terminals on the starter, take a look at this photo:

Image

Note there are different terminal adapters made for this starter.

Pictured on the (short-frame) starter motor: Stock original RWD Dodge truck and van terminal adapter

Other adapters pictured left to right next to the starter:

• Mitsu 3.0 terminal adapter (that's the one I'd use for max clearance between the top of the starter and the cable attachment points)

• 2.2/2.5 4-cylinder terminal adapter

• 3.3 LH-car terminal adapter (only for the battery cable; the solenoid trigger connects directly to the starter body without any adapter).

You can get these bits at your local auto electrical rebuilding house. Here are the WAI part numbers (WAI/Transpo is an immense worldwide supplier of rebuild parts for automotive rotating electricals). Also supplied are the Lester numbers for the three non-RWD variants of this starter assembly. Refer to the photo above for visual ID. Each setup requires three parts: The B+ (battery) terminal extension, the S+ (solenoid winding) terminal extension, and the plastic insulator block.

For the RWD 3.9/5.2/5.9 starter:
------------------------------------------
Terminal block, includes B+ and S+ extensions: 76-82568
Cover, motor housing B & S terminals: 72-82100

For the 3.0L starter (Lester No. 17020):
------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82101
B+ extension: 76-82556
S+ extension: 76-82557

For the 2.2L/2.5L starter (Lester No. 17007):
------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82102
B+ extension: 76-82562
S+ extension: 76-82563

For the 3.3L LH starter (Lester No. 17460):
---------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82104
B+ extension: 76-82566
Cover: 72-82103

Since I'm posting this info, I'll go a step further and post this link, which contains detailed information (including P/Ns) for solenoid repair on the ND mini starter. This is practically the only repair ever required on those starters.

There are other tips and tricks on this starter (swapping drive pinions for compatibility with odd-size Australian ring gears, etc.). I'll put them together into an article sooner or later.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice work Dan!

Now....where do you get those adapters?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Glad you asked, Sandy. You can get these bits at your local auto electrical rebuilding house. Here are the WAI part numbers (WAI/Transpo is an immense worldwide supplier of rebuild parts for automotive rotating electricals). Also supplied are the Lester numbers for the three non-RWD variants of this starter assembly. Refer to the photo above for visual ID. Each setup requires three parts: The B+ (battery) terminal extension, the S+ (solenoid winding) terminal extension, and the plastic insulator block.

For the 3.0L starter (Lester No. 17020):
------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82101
B+ extension: 76-82556
S+ extension: 76-82557

For the 2.2L starter (Lester No. 17007):
------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82102
B+ extension: 76-82562
S+ extension: 76-82563

For the 3.3L LH starter (Lester No. 17460):
---------------------------------------------
Insulator block: 72-82104
B+ extension: 76-82566
Cover: 72-82103

Since I'm posting this info, I'll go a step further and post this link, which contains detailed information (including P/Ns) for solenoid repair on the ND mini starter. This is practically the only repair ever required on those starters.

There are other tips and tricks on this starter (swapping drive pinions for compatibility with odd-size Australian ring gears, etc.). I'll put them together into an article sooner or later.
Author:  mattyhill [ Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
SSDan,
Nice picture of the starter! What type of camera do you have?
Author:  Patrick Devlin [ Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll take a shot at the camera question...it's a Canon PowerShot A50. I saved the picture and looked at its EXIF (Exchangeable Image File) data.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Nice picture of the starter! What type of camera do you have?
A Canon Powershot G3 4-Megapixel unit which takes nice, sharp pictures but is kind of bulky.

But I didn't take the picture, my friend with a starter-alternator shop did!
Author:  Patrick Devlin [ Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I didn't think that could turn into a trick question. I've been foiled!

And an on-topic note: good information to have, as I am thinking of adding another Dutra casting for "Dual Duals" since it doesn't look like I'll be able to get those García Headers from Mexico (and I don't want to spend a fortune on Hooker Supercomps...and I'm wary of buying from Clifford these days).

I know the Dutra Dual casting was/is a lot of work for Doug and that he's had trouble even finding a foundry to do them these days, but my suggestion for the future is to come up with a "rear" Dutra casting with the outlet angled either straight more more toward the front of the engine. That'd make these a whole lot better to use in the "Dual Dual" configuration.
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