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what an I doing wrong? slant runs poorly
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16143		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  convx4 [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  what an I doing wrong? slant runs poorly
I rebuilt the engine in 1998 and can't remember all the details of the assembly. I didnt take enough photos to be any help. I started the engine for the first time in nov. 2005 it didnt run very well. I have been messing with it and this is what I got.

Crank Top Dead Center, balancer mark lines up with 0 on tab.
#1 valve rockers wiggle in the closed position, #6 intake has pressure on valve but is not open.
With the electronic distributor rotor lined up to fire on the #1 sparkplug I get a 10 -15 Degree timing advance reading when running. It does start runs poorly and vibrates in drive while stopped.
But when I rotate the rotor clockwise one tooth the idle is smoother and sounds better, The dial back timing gun now reads 45-55 degrees.

Does my problem sound like I have the timing chain installed wrong?
I cant remember if the timing chain had extra key ways for different ways to install.
I hate to destroy this slant six.
convx4@yahoo.com Bill S
Author:  VDART [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
does your car run hot!! if your dial back is reading that high you have too much timing-- 28-32 I believe is about max for a slant car-- ---
1) re-adjust valves running

2) reset total timing 30 degrees (dial back-- initial should be 10-15 BTDC)

3) adjust carb for max idle & see if this helps

4)post results--
Author:  convx4 [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I havent noticed it running hot it seems normal

Did the tune up as recommend on this site.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Pull and plug the vacc.. advance?
Not to ask, but when getting initial readings, set to TDC like you did, but pull the vacc. adv. hose from the dist and plug it with a screw or something (or cap at carb...)...

Check your timing then...I'd even take it for a spin and see how it does on mech adv. only...then reintroduce the vacc. adv.

45-55 would be good at something like 2000+ rpms on the highway....
10-15 would be good initially, or at low idle...

you didn't state your numbers idle rpm,

also, a friend of mine a long while back decided to put all the hoses back by memory after a carb rebuild on his Scamp...he complained of problems and sluggy acceleration in traffic unless it was warmed up really well...I pulled the book out and found his vacc. adv. hose was connected to the EGR port on the carb (only get's vacc. adv. at part throttle under certain conditions)...it became a smooth idling beast with some 'kick' after plugging that port and putting the hose on the correct one... :roll:

-D.Idiot
Author:  convx4 [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
All the numbers listed earler are at idle.The vacuum line was plugged at the carb, and not hooked up to the distributor's advance. The last 1970 slant six dart I had ran so much smoother at idle.
Author:  oldgoat83 [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
They still need your actual idle speed since it can vary. For example, I have an intake leak, which makes my idle somewhat erradic. At carb rebuild spec, the engine idles extremely high. I have to enrich it to get it to idle down.
Author:  VDART [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:55 am ]
Post subject: 
your timing is too far advanced == should not have 45-55 total timing at idle-- maybe 12-- plug the vacuum advance & get your idle timing down -- will help!!
Author:  convx4 [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I haven't yet bother with hooking up a tac. Tomorrow I will. There is already so much stuff that I am trying to keep out of the belts or burning on the exhaust while I am messing with the timing. Today drove the car with the idle timing set at 10-15 degrees still ran rough not smooth. then I advanced the rotor one tooth to the 45-55 degree at idle. the engine ran alot better and a whole lot smoother had good power. But there was a noticeable miss or skip in the exhaust at idle. I left it at that for the evening. any thoughts? i still think that timing chain could be installed wrong. How do you check the coil to see if it is for points or for electronic ingitions? I don't trust the parts I get from my parts store when they aren't noticeable different. Bill S
Author:  Slant6Ram [ Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  thoughts
Quote:
#1 valve rockers wiggle in the closed position, #6 intake has pressure on valve but is not open.
Quote:
Did the tune up as recommend on this site.
First off, did you do a valve adjustment?? If you installed an aftermarket cam, and are you sure you've adjusted valves per the manufacturs spec. This would be my first things to try and is the #1 reason I have experienced missing at idle. I agree with others who have said that around 12 btdc is a proper idle setting for timing.

My other suggestion is related to the electronic ignition system. Consider replacing the coil, ecu, and distributor pickup coil if they are origional equipment. I recently replaced the ECU in my truck and found a huge improvement, the truck had a bad miss and hard starting for a year until I finally broke down and paid $20 for a new ecu. Be sure that the ECU (new or old) has a good clean ground (where it mounts to the body) because there is no ground wire.(unless you've added one like I have) You wouldn't be the first to repaint the engine bay and mistakenly fudge the ecu ground. Just food for thought.

All that said, you might still have installed the timing set one tooth off and while it is a big pain, you should usually be able to check/correct it without removing the engine from the car.
Author:  convx4 [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
New parts include:
Ballast restor, coil, ECU, ground wire for ECU,magnecor wires. auto lite plugs, blue streak cap, napa preformance rotor, cast iron drive gear, electronic pick-up, vacuum advance canaster,stock replacement cam with new mecanical solid lifters, reconditioned rocker arms, valve job, timing chain, full rebuilt engine.

I still feel that I could have used the wrong key way on the multiple key way double roller timing chain that I got from P.A.W. If I used the advanced key way the cam gear how would the engine run? How do I check the coil to see if it is for electronic ingitions?
Author:  convx4 [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I found in a search of this site how to check my timing chain to see if it is off a tooth. It looks like that is not my problem like I thought it could be. On a different site I found step by step instructions on how to check electronic ignitions, but it does not go into detail on how to check the coil. So I posted another question on the board.
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:32 am ]
Post subject: 
What year Slant Six do you have? Does it have solid lifters?
(Are there adjusting screws on the rocker arms?)

One more time...
Have you done a valve lash adjustment?
Do you have the valve cover off? Are all the pushrods "spinning" when the engine runs? Are you getting oil to the rocker arms?
DD
Author:  convx4 [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a 1970 block and head. I got the engine hot then I pulled off the cover and ran the engine while adjusting the valves. There was plenty of oil flowing from the rockers. I didnt notice if the push rods were rotating when the engine was running. I feel that there is some thing that is causing this problem, and I haven't found it.
Author:  convx4 [ Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Back on the road for now. Still the idle, while in gear, has a vibration to it, this is not a miss. My hope is that this will wear in, or break.
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