Slant Six Forum :: Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?

I need to change the crankshaft in my 1963 225 to the 1968 or later crankshaft. This is to obtain the larger pilot hole so I can bolt up a 1987 electric lockup A904.

Should I stay with the forged

I just learned from Hughes Performance that they were wrong, and there is no way to modify the torque converter for a smaller pilot.

Is there a source for these anyone would kindly recommend?

they informed me that they would not even place an order unless they have the casting number of the crank I need. Does anyone have these numbers?

I plan to install a Gear Vendors overdrive, but this requires a later linkage-type transmission, controlled by an Imperial Services conversion of my push button gear selector.

Is there a table that goes up to 1987? I'm just a little concerned because the diameter of the "87 pilot mics at 1.82 to 1.83 inches, whereas the table through the "82 model year shows the torque converter recess as 1.82.

What is the difference between the casting numbers
2543935
2849335
3769307

I'm kind of suprised that Hughes couldn't split the convertor to put the smaller nose on the front and keep the rest...there are plenty of board members that have had to get a pre67 convertor to post 67 tranny Torque convertor made....

-D.Idiot

It will not work, with a lock up converter. The pilot on the converter is hollow, to accomadate internal components. With the lock up converter the hole in the pilot is larger, and there is not enough wall thickness to reduce the outside diameter. The same situation holds true with a late 727 trans, the converter cannot get the smaller pilot.

I am in this same boat but with a 65 273 V8 that I want to mate to a 1978 NON lockup 904(A-999 I believe).

Quote:

I am in this same boat but with a 65 273 V8 that I want to mate to a 1978 NON lockup 904(A-999 I believe).

This is a possible swap; you need to install the input shaft and some other front components from a pre-'67 transmission. Then you just go ahead and use the early-style converter and leave the crankshaft alone.

Author:	Walter Lee Jackson [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject:	Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?
I need to change the crankshaft in my 1963 225 to the 1968 or later crankshaft. This is to obtain the larger pilot hole so I can bolt up a 1987 electric lockup A904. I just learned from Hughes Performance that they were wrong, and there is no way to modify the torque converter for a smaller pilot. I know the larger pilot hole crankshafts began in the 1968 model year, but don't know when the switch was made to the cast crank. Should I stay with the forged, or go with the cast crank? This car will not be raced. It is strictly for street/cruising. Is there a source for these anyone would kindly recommend? I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. I called NAPA, and they informed me that they would not even place an order unless they have the casting number of the crank I need. Does anyone have these numbers? Help! TIA --Walt Jackson

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?
Quote: I need to change the crankshaft in my 1963 225 to the 1968 or later crankshaft. This is to obtain the larger pilot hole so I can bolt up a 1987 electric lockup A904. Gee whiz, that's major and expensive surgery. Why the need for an '87 transmission? If you're doing it for a gas mileage improvement, I respectfully suggest you do the cost-recovery math before proceeding, for you'll likely find the payback period is quite long. Quote: Should I stay with the forged That is your only option if you want to keep your '63 engine. The cast crank, introduced in the middle of the 1976 model year, is not compatible with the block or connecting rods used with the cast crank. Quote: I just learned from Hughes Performance that they were wrong, and there is no way to modify the torque converter for a smaller pilot. True, but unless the lockup trans requires different input shafts compared to the non-lockup (which may be the caseâ€”I stay away from the lockup transmissions, so I'm not sure), you could with much less expense swap the '67-down input shaft and a few other parts into the '68-up transmission and go ahead and use the up-to-'67 torque converter that fits your up-to-'67 engine. Another option, should it come to this, might be to machine out the counterbore in your early crank to take the late torque converter. Here again, not sure how feasible this is/n't. Quote: Is there a source for these anyone would kindly recommend? A '68-'76 225 crank is not an exotic piece; any engine rebuild shop ought to be able to furnish one for you. Replacing just the crankshaft is not wise; you'll want to check the connecting rods and you may well find they need reconditioning, and if you're doing that, it's foolhardy not to replace the rings, and if you're doing that, the cylinders will need at least honing, and possibly overboring, and if you do that, then a less-than-almost-perfect head will rapidly reveal its age...what I'm trying to get across to you here is that unless your '63 engine is a fairly fresh build, you are setting yourself up for heartache and additional expense and work down the line if you do a half-baked job (crank swap only). And, I ask again, for what ultimate gain? Quote: I called NAPA Probably not the route I'd take if I needed a crankshaft. Quote: they informed me that they would not even place an order unless they have the casting number of the crank I need. Does anyone have these numbers? You do, right on this site, see Here. Specify 2543935, 2843935 or 3769307 as your forging number.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:35 am ]
Post subject:
You may want to stick to a forged crank to make it easy. I replaced the crank in my 65 last fall without having to remove the head or the pistons. Pull the engine,,,,oil pan. Remove the rod caps one at a time and rotate the crank as you go.....pushing the pistons to the top of the bore. Eventually you can remove/replace the crank. Pull the pistons/rods down one at a time as you rotate the crank. It saves a bunch of baloney and gaskets . If the engine is out you can re/re the crank in about an hour for the price of a pan gasket and bearings. Another cool slant trick!

Author:	Walter Lee Jackson [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?
"Why the need for an '87 transmission?" I'm certainly not building this 1963 Dodge Dart GT convertible for economy!!! (vbg) It's my ultimate hobby, I guess. I plan to install a Gear Vendors overdrive, but this requires a later linkage-type transmission, controlled by an Imperial Services conversion of my push button gear selector. Since I need the later transmission, I chose the electronically controlled lock-up torque converter found only on the 1986 & 1987. All this to be controlled by the computer for the Electromotive TEC3 multipoint fuel injection system. So, sitting at home is a newly rebuilt '87 A904. Perhaps I would not have gone this route if I had not been assured by Hughes Performance that it was simple to convert the torque converter to the early small pilot. But what's done is done. I now understand this is impossible to convert. I've gone too far in this direction to turn back. So, two choices per Hughes: pull the existing crank and have a machine ship modify it, or purchase a rebuilt later crank. The engine is a fresh rebuild and has never been started. I'm leaning toward the later crank since it eliminates the guesswork. "...for what ultimate gain?" For the fun of it, if nothing else. I should have a car with all the driveability and fuel economy of a modern car, with extreme durability. Dan, thanks for the site with the table. Is there a table that goes up to 1987? I'm just a little concerned because the diameter of the "87 pilot mics at 1.82 to 1.83 inches, whereas the table through the "82 model year shows the torque converter recess as 1.82. I may have to have my existing crank taken out to about 1.85 since, from your advice, I could not use the '87 cast crank. Thanks, Sandy, for your thoughts and encouragement as to how "easy" this is. --Walt Jackson

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?
Quote: I plan to install a Gear Vendors overdrive, but this requires a later linkage-type transmission, controlled by an Imperial Services conversion of my push button gear selector. I'll be interested to learn how the Imperial Services conversion works out for you. Quote: Is there a table that goes up to 1987? I'm just a little concerned because the diameter of the "87 pilot mics at 1.82 to 1.83 inches, whereas the table through the "82 model year shows the torque converter recess as 1.82. There are only two automatic-trans slant-6 crank counterbore sizes: Small '60-'67, and large '68-up.

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Author:	james longhurst [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:
walter- i'd suggest looking here: http://www.slantsix.org/articles/parts-matrix/jpg.htm it's a good reference for different casting numbers that may come in handy if you aren't familiar with the physical differences among slant cranks from different generations. as for your late model trans in the narrowbody car, be prepared for a little floorpan massaging in the area of the shift levers as the clearance is very tight there. -james

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Crankshaft Type/Source/Casting Number?
Quote: What is the difference between the casting numbers 2543935 2849335 3769307 I'd lay money that only one of the first two actually exists. "Is that a five or an eight?" It's sometimes hard to tell with casting/forging numbers, which often aren't crystal-clear. As for the third number, there is no difference. Why the different number? Chrysler did that all the time. What's the difference between a 3656650 starter and a 2875560? Absolutely not a thing. Every component is identical.

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Lol...
I'm kind of suprised that Hughes couldn't split the convertor to put the smaller nose on the front and keep the rest...there are plenty of board members that have had to get a pre67 convertor to post 67 tranny Torque convertor made.... You can give them the 1976 crank P/N 3830099 Forged..LOL -D.Idiot

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lol...
Quote: I'm kind of suprised that Hughes couldn't split the convertor to put the smaller nose on the front and keep the rest...there are plenty of board members that have had to get a pre67 convertor to post 67 tranny Torque convertor made.... -D.Idiot It will not work, with a lock up converter. The pilot on the converter is hollow, to accomadate internal components. With the lock up converter the hole in the pilot is larger, and there is not enough wall thickness to reduce the outside diameter. The same situation holds true with a late 727 trans, the converter cannot get the smaller pilot.

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:25 am ]
Post subject:	Thanks Charlie!
Quote: It will not work, with a lock up converter. The pilot on the converter is hollow, to accomadate internal components. With the lock up converter the hole in the pilot is larger, and there is not enough wall thickness to reduce the outside diameter. The same situation holds true with a late 727 trans, the converter cannot get the smaller pilot. I was curious about that, my Torqueflite rebuild guides don't get into the lock up years, so I wasn't sure what changed to need that... thanks! -D.Idiot

Author:	dart64rg [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lol...
Quote: I'm kind of suprised that Hughes couldn't split the convertor to put the smaller nose on the front and keep the rest...there are plenty of board members that have had to get a pre67 convertor to post 67 tranny Torque convertor made.... -D.Idiot I am in this same boat but with a 65 273 V8 that I want to mate to a 1978 NON lockup 904(A-999 I believe). I have not been able to get a clear answer from another Mopar web board in the recent past, so I kind of gave up on the idea of getting a "FrankenConvertor" made. I resigned myself to disassembling the engine to have the crank modified to fit the later torque snout. I will post a thread to find out who has had a special convertor made in the past, and where I could get it done.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lol...
Quote: I am in this same boat but with a 65 273 V8 that I want to mate to a 1978 NON lockup 904(A-999 I believe). This is a possible swap; you need to install the input shaft and some other front components from a pre-'67 transmission. Then you just go ahead and use the early-style converter and leave the crankshaft alone.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lol...
Quote: Quote: I am in this same boat but with a 65 273 V8 that I want to mate to a 1978 NON lockup 904(A-999 I believe). This is a possible swap; you need to install the input shaft and some other front components from a pre-'67 transmission. Then you just go ahead and use the early-style converter and leave the crankshaft alone. That is one option, but if you want a higher stall converter, or just don't want to change the front of the trans, you can get a hybrid converter. Edge Racing Converters, Midwest, are two that come to mind. The a-999 trans has a 5 disc front clutch, and it might be harder to find a 5 disc clutch, in the early trans.

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