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wanting explaination
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16531		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dustenn89 [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  wanting explaination
ok i know there is alot of info on all of this, but i kinda wanted a direct answer and i am going to print this off to show the guy who helped me because he didnt think there was a reason to do some things (hot valve adjustment)

i have a new motor dropped in the dart and i have about 800 miles on it.
when we built it we set the valves cold to haynes settings and left them.
i have a holley 390 on it and havent jetted it or anything and she is running very rich (black smoke at startup and idle).

before i go to the trouble of adjusting/tuning the carb should i do another valve adjustment?

if so what settings would you use and is there an advantage to doing it hot? noticable

specs.

stock cam running 15 degrees timing
ngk plugs gapped .045
289 exhaust/302 intake valves
took only .020 off head, bored over .30
stock exhaust manifold

thanks guys
dustin
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wanting explaination
Quote:
show the guy who helped me because he didnt think there was a reason to do some things (hot valve adjustment)
Hot valve adjustment is pretty standard across most engines that require periodic adjustment.
Quote:
when we built it we set the valves cold to haynes settings
Ooh. You're going to hurt yourself and/or your wallet and/or your car with that Haynes book. Get the genuine factory service manual as soon as you can.
Quote:
before i go to the trouble of adjusting/tuning the carb should i do another valve adjustment?
Sounds as if you need to do both. There is no cold valve adjustment setting that gets you off the hook from doing the adjustment hot. The cold settings you might read about are just "get it in the rough ballpark" settings so that the engine will start and run reasonably so you can warm it up and adjust them hot!
Quote:
if so what settings would you use and is there an advantage to doing it hot?
The "advantage" to doing it hot is...that's the right way to do it! :lol: Metal, like everything else, expands when heated. The valvetrain is made out of metal parts which expand when they get hot. That means the clearances between them change as they heat up. Since the engine spends most of its time running at operating temperature, we set the clearance when the engine's hot so it'll be optimal when the engine's hot. Procedure Here.
Quote:
stock cam running 15 degrees timing
H'mmm...what do you mean here? 15 degrees initial spark advance? Or you've advanced the camshaft by 15 degrees? Something else?
Author:  Dustenn89 [ Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
just 15 degrees intial timing

didnt realize it ran together

thanks dan for the 'planation

well get on the valve adjusting hot

dustin
Author:  Slant6Ram [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Ditto
In short, I agree with Dan

Do the hot valve adjustment (it's really not that hard to do)

You WILL still need to adjust the carb.

On another important note:
If you've got the initial timing set to 15, you need to recurve your distributor. If not, you should put it at the factory spec or else you will have problems with ping at higher rpms.(which will burn valves) Changing the timing can have a considerable effect on carb adjustment, so you will want to figure out what you are doing with that.

There was an article with some info about distributors around here some place. :wink:
Author:  slantzilla [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I always set them cold, engine off. Valve adjustment is not going to cure black plugs anyway. :shock:
Author:  HyperValiant [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just taught my 15 year old daughter how to set the valves when the engine is running on her 79 Volare and actully used the expanation that Dan gave on why its done running.She did fairly well but still needs to learn the feel of the guage a little more.
HyperValiant
Author:  sandy in BC [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I set em cold . Then I setem hot.....not running....Then I check them by "feel" while running..

I can feel better than I can see so I set the first valve cold with the gauge ,,,,then I rattle it to get a "feel" for the clearance. Then I set the rest by "feel" .....I go for a test drive,,,get it hot.....and set the first by gauge....and the rest by feel (not running). There is rarely any difference between hotncold. I then hook up the vacuum gauge and reset (by feel) and vacuum guage while running. Then I run the hell out of it,,,,and recheck by feel. If all is good I set the timing and idle mix by vacuum guage and light.
Then I leave it for six months or a jillion miles. Mostly it is just the same as when I left it.

A Go- NO- Go gauge is the best for beginners.

I think its more important to get the "feel" of where your motor likes it than it is to use a specific number. It will let you know when it is happy....and you will be able to turn the idle down.
When my slant is happy it sounds like my 111G Singer walking foot sewing machine.

Image
Author:  Dustenn89 [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
On another important note:
If you've got the initial timing set to 15, you need to recurve your distributor. If not, you should put it at the factory spec or else you will have problems with ping at higher rpms.(which will burn valves) Changing the timing can have a considerable effect on carb adjustment, so you will want to figure out what you are doing with that.
even though i have the stock distributor for my 74 swinger, is it true i can only run it at tdc

i had it set before the rebuild at 20 and no pinging and after the rebuild i set it at 15 and no trouble yet

what is the max someone has set it intially with a stock distributor?

dustin
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
The lower the cranking compression, the more initial timing the engine will take. (low compression ratio or lots of cam overlap)
on stock Slants, 15-16 degrees is about all it will take before the idle quality will start to suffer.
Watch the total timing, under full load, Slants make the most power with 30-32 degrees "total" timing. (initial + mechainical advance)
If you run more total, you may not hear the pinging but the engine will not produce as much power.
DD
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