Sorry about all my questions, but things are coming togther all at once. 1973 Dart Swinger. Since these are all related, I guess I will try to get them all at once.

I need a new coil (the oil leaked out of the old one). Summitracing has the Accel 8140 for $28 (the local Kragen has the same unit is $50). So I thought I would get a new ballast resistor also, and I am going to replace the Alternator.

The Accel 8140 has 1.4 ohms primary resistance and 9,200 secondary

My stock coil (#2444242) is (according to the FSM) 1.60 to 1.79 primary and 9,400 to 11,700 secondary.

The stock Ballast (Has four plugs) is rated at 0.50 –0.60 ohms coil side and 4.75-5.75 ohms control unit side. I look at the summitracing website, and there are ballasts ranging from 0.25 to 1.82 ohms.

Alternator - According to the FSM all 198-225 V-L models has a 34 amp Alt, but the factory service manual also says Special equipment Heavy Duty and/or Air Cond V-L-R-W models is a 50 amp Alt. My car came stock with AC (not currently installed though). So does mine have the 50 or 34 amp? How do I tell?

I don’t want to start frying wires or create a bottleneck with mismatched electrical components. My engine will be basically stock with a super six setup.

Questions

1) If my current alt is a 34 amp, and I buy a 50 or 60 amp alt, should I also replace the voltage regulator?

2) If my coil is different than stock, how does this affect my ballast ohms choice.

3) Do you have any recommendations for a compatible coil, ballast, Alt, voltage regulator combo?

4) I see 7mm, 8mm, and 8.8mm spark plug wires for sale. Are the 8mm the best and most economical for my car?

I think I was absent the day we had electrical engineering in school, so I don't know much about this.

1) A stock voltage regulator will work fine; the HD charging systems bypassed the bulkhead connector. See http://www.octaneonline.com/img/currentissue.pdf for one of many ways to avoid melting the stock path. The only exception would be if you were running the (relatively rare) LN alternator - it looks different and uses a different regulator.

2) A near-stock coil like the Accel will work fine with a stock-type ballast; only if you go to a hot coil (like a Pertronix with 0.6ohm primary) will you have to change ballast - that would also strain your stock wiring and connectors. If you ECU is newer than 1978 or so, you don't need the 5 ohm side. If both sides of the 5ohm side register the same w/ a multimeter with the ignition on, it probably isn't used at all.

3)The ignition won't care about the voltage regulator - 1970-up were all electronic. Any very close to stock system combination should work fine. I've run the Accel coil for years w/ a stock-type ballast and ECU just fine; the only thing I don't like is that my chrome Accel coil seems prone to rust.

4) I feel wire quality is more important than diameter; I've been very pleased with Magnecor brand and displeased with many cheaper ones (Belden, MSW, etc.). Good quality 7mm wires would be fine with a stock type ignition setup.

Let me congradulate you for thinking about the details earlier rather than later.

I refer you again to the HEI retrofit article, which will guide you along the path of doing a low-cost ignition upgrade that will improve performance and eliminate a failure point (no more ballast resistor).
Originally it would've come with the 50A unit, but who knows what it's got now, 33 years on? Probably been swapped several times for parts store "anybody's guess" units. Are you experiencing electrical symptoms that suggest you need a new alternator or regulator? Or just trying to go through the system and rework it for reliability while you have everything all apart?

No.

Get Magnecor wires. I'm working with them right this minute on improving their #6008 set for better fit and appearance on the '60-'74 slant-6s. Presently the set comes with plain straight spark plug boots and distributor cap boots that are a tetch too large; Magnecor have in stock all the right bits to improve the boots on both ends of the wires, and I should have an answer back from them in a day or so as to whether there'll be a new P/N for the improved '60-'74 kit. Stay tuned.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Great stuff you guys, thanks. Looks like Magnecor is a winner. Is the 6008 the best fit at the moment? Let me know how the negotiations go for better fitting boots, I won't need the wires for 2-3 weeks.

[quote="SlantSixDan
I refer you again to the HEI retrofit article, which will guide you along the path of doing a low-cost ignition upgrade that will improve performance and eliminate a failure point (no more ballast resistor).
[/quote]

Finally read it. Very interesting. Looks relatively easy. Since I need a coil anyway, I am going to buy the MSD Blaster 2 rather than the Accel 8140, use the currrent ballast, then do the conversion when I get the engine running. Since I have never driven this car or seen it run, I may just go with the current ignition at first.




[quote="SlantSixDan
Are you experiencing electrical symptoms that suggest you need a new alternator or regulator? Or just trying to go through the system and rework it for reliability while you have everything all apart?
[/quote]

I have no symptoms, cause it doesn't run, and I assume the current alternator probably works, because the last owners were driving it when (lack of oil) ran a rod through the block, then it sat for a year or so before I got it. But, with a new engine going in, and new paint in the engine compartment, I don't want some crappy, rusty, spider webby wart right on top of my new, nicely painted, detailed engine. So, maybe not too economical, but necessary for peace of mind.

Ah! Well, in that case, go and buy a new (not remanufactured) alternator from Bill Rolick. Any of These units will fit, wire-in and work well in your '73.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

By the way, it is also since alternators are only about $35. If they were much more, I would use the old one. Should I get a 50 or 60 amp?

We must have posted at the same time. I will check it out, Thanks!

Do not buy a "remanufactured" alternator from the parts store. Same goes for carburetors, starters and most other things. Junk-junk-junk, you're begging for trouble if you buy it.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I can understand this philosophy with carbs and alternators, but does this apply to simpler things like calipers, water pumps and master cylinders? The guy on ebay sounds good, but ebay can be hit or miss, and sometimes rather costly. Since many parts are no longer manufactured new for these old cars, do you rebuild your own stuff, or is there a source for rebuilt parts that are rebuilt by knowledgable folks who give a hoot about their work?

I've bought numerous times from this particular seller. The new alternators are as advertised. Other questions answered later, It's bedtime!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I have actually had good experiences with reman alternators and starters, so long as I got the lifetime warrenty models. The one and three year ones are junk, no questiona bout it.

My dad's alternator went out many years ago and the reman unit he replaced it with has already lasted as long as the OEM unit. My truck had a bad alternator when I got it, and it got a reman as well; so far the only thing that went wrong was the tensioner holes stripping out. This was shortly after installing it. They gave me another one at no charge, and it had helicoils already installed. Hasn't given me a bit of trouble since. My re-man starter has also held up very well, and it has gotten a lot of abuse (used to have a terrible hot-start problem). I know several stores also carry brand new starters and alternators for many applications, but for the price difference, I have never seen a reason to spring for them.

I won't lie, occaisonally, you will find one the re-man units that's dead on the shelf. While I was working at the parts store, I made it a habit to test any alt. or starter before it left the store (unless the customer was being a pr!ck). When I say occaisonally though, I mean I found two of the lifetime units in the year that I worked there. (One year models were another story... seriously... don't go there.) So long as it tests out OK before you leave the store, I would have absolutely no qualms putting a rebuilt one with a lifetime warrenty on.

Not denying your experience, but all of mine is exactly opposite.

And I've never found the "lifetime" crap to be any better than the "3-year" crap. I've got a good friend in the rotating-electrics industry; I've seen what goes into the "remanufactured" parts, and it's pure junk, through and through. Low-bid, low-spec Chinese consumables that don't even come close to meeting the OEM spec. And yes, that's even on the "lifetime" units. I've had enough very bad experiences and helped enough people fix their cars (stranded by prematurely dead "remanufactured" electrics) that I very strongly warn people off of them. And even the ones that don't fail outright cause operational problems. Alternators with extremely poor low-RPM charging characteristics and/or "noisy"/jumpy output due to mismatched rotors and stators and low-quality diodes. Starters that sound like hell because the gears are mismatched and sandblasted. It's just not worth the price savings.
Trickery and scam. "Brand new," sure, but it's brand-new copycat garbage made in China.
That's if you get lucky. When you get unlucky, the unit lasts just long enough to strand you somewhere inconvenient.
And me, I have enough qualms never to put that trash on my cars. "Lifetime warranty", IME, means you spend your lifetime exchanging cruddy "remanufactured" parts under warranty.

If no genuine OEM new unit is available, I'll happily take the bench rebuild done by a competent and knowledgeable auto electrician with the 30-day guarantee, any day of the week. It's a better-performing, more reliable, more durable unit...every time.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Well, in theory, there is no reason that a company shouldn't be able to remanufacture a part so that it exceeds the quality of a competant rebuilder. Now, that's not to say that I think most of the stuff out there does; it certainly doesn't.

I'm on internship with John Deere this summer, and my primary project is working on how to the aftermarket business back from the parts houses and into the dealerships. A large part of that is that JD is now offering remanufactured parts, in partnership with a company called Regen out of Springfield, MO. I'm still rather leery of the whole situation, but we're in the process of setting up a trip where I'll get a chance to go through their factory and get a chance to see their work in person. I'm really interested to see if it's all they claim it is.

In my opinion /quality/ remanufacturing should be attainable. One of the things that makes me feel more comfortable with the situtation this summer is that the engineers are starting to think about remanufacturing when they do the original design. There's a great deal of communication between Regen and Deere (actually, I believe JD owns a chunk of them), and I wonder if/hope that it will help turn out reliable units now, and particularly in the future.

It seems that the biggest problem is that as soon as you label a part "re-man" people immediately don't want to pay more than 50% of the price of a new one. Realistically, you can't get quality for that price. To me, the primary importance of remanufacturing is that everything we're dealing with is a limited resource. There's no reason to go melting down the old stuff as scrap if it can be rebuilt to the same quality as when it was new. (Though 90% of the rebuilt stuff out there doesn't meet that goal, I can't argue that.)

I agree completely that there's nothing inherent in the concept (or theory) of remanufacturing that precludes a consistently high-quality result. As is so often the case, the problems arise from the implementation, not the concept. As you point out, most of the market for remanufactured parts is more interested in out-the-door price than in the vagaries of quality and durability. People spend twenty minutes calling around asking for a price on a starter, then go fetch the one with the lowest quote. This is especially true where DIYers are concerned; mostly they're working on their own cars because they cannot or will not pay to have someone else do it. In that context, low price is king, and the money goes into glossy boxes and frilly "Lifetime Warranty!" certificates and gimmicky "100% new parts!" babble (not telling you anything about the cruddy unquality of those new parts...), while the parts themselves get treated as quickly as possible. So that's one vector for pressure towards low price and away from pesky quality concerns.

Another is that the items we're specifically discussing here are old! The newest Chrysler gear-reduction starters and '70-up dual-field alternators were made in 1987-88. Many or most of them have been through the quick 'n' abusive, low-price-at-all-costs "remanufacturing" process several times. Critical casting dimensions have been blasted into oblivion...multiple times. Low-quality parts have replaced low-quality parts...multiple times. Stators and rotors have been mismatched...multiple times.

As has been mentioned in other threads, even those parts sources that tended to carry a higher caliber of refurbished rotating electricals (NAPA, CarQuest, Big-A, etc.) have lately been "aggressively moving to capture their share of the DIY market", which is MBA-speak for signing on to stock the dreck coming from A1-Cardone, Arrow, Champion Reman and the rest of the quick-n-cheap remanufacturers.

More recently, there's been a great deal of name-licensing to try to bolster confidence in reman parts by applying reputable OEM names to them. "Bosch Remanufactured". "AC-Delco Remanufactured". "Mopar Remanufactured". Nothing's different; the contract is farmed out to the low-bid factory where unskilled workers tear apart cores, abusively clean them with overharsh abrasives -- destroying machined tolerances and protective surface finishes in the process, throw the mismatched parts of numerous different and marginally compatible originals back together using poor-quality Chinese consumables (brushes, bearings, diodes, etc.), spray 'em with clear coat that lasts all of 3 months, and throw 'em in "BOSCH" (or whatever) boxes together with a 3-color Certificate of Lifetime Warranty.

I've seen these operations at work. The "BOSCH" boxes are right next to the "ACDelco" boxes are right next to the "MOTORCRAFT" boxes are right next to the "MOPAR" boxes are right next to the "AUTOLITE" boxes are right next to the "CHAMPION" boxes are right next to the "Original Equipment reManufactured" boxes (not kidding about any of these, even the last ones).

I don't see it getting better any time soon in the automotive aftermarket. As previously mentioned, the latest gimmick (since parts store "remans" have gained such a bad reputation) is the "100% new" scam. eBay is full of "brand new" mini-starters for Mopars. They're brand-new, very low quality Chinese copycats.

Remember several years ago when President Bush visited a company called USA Industries to talk about how the American small business owner is the backbone of America? Maybe you don't. Here's a picture directly from the White House. This depicts President Bush's visit to USA Industries in Bay Shore, NY, in March of 2004. He went there to trumpet his tax cuts' benefit to good old-fashioned American businesses like USA Industries.

Only one problem: See all those starter/alternator boxes stacked up behind the smiling politicos, flanking the great big American flag?
The only thing American about USA Industries is the labor involved in unloading shipping pallets. USA Industries does not manufacture or remanufacture anything. They collect starter and alternator cores, sell 'em for scrap metal, and import Chinese copycat parts for insertion into flag-festooned "USA INDUSTRIES" boxes and distribution to your friendly local auto parts chain to be sold as "100% New from USA Industries!".

And, even worse (yep, it gets worse!), you can't even be assured of getting what you think you're getting by being a discriminating shopper. Take a look for yourself.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.