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| Flex Fuel??? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17220 |
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| Author: | valiantfreak [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Flex Fuel??? |
Hey guys, can we run this cheaper E-85 flex fuel in our slants? |
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| Author: | mcnoople [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:27 pm ] |
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No currently E85 is a big dead end, but it gives the enviromentalists and farmers something to point at and receive subsidies from. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... hlight=e85 |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:35 pm ] |
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You can run E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) if you wish to quickly destroy every component in the vehicle's fuel system. It would be theoretically possible to retrofit an old car to run on E85, but here's what you'd need: -A new fuel tank, made out of stainless steel or high-grade plastic (not made for any vehicle that came with a slant-6; this'd be a custom deal) -All new fuel lines made out of stainless steel -A new fuel pump that'll handle 85% ethanol (not made in the mechanical style pump the slant uses; you'd probably wind up with an electric pump) -An extensively reworked carburetor, with all castings electrochemically coated for extreme corrosion resistance, equipped with much larger jets, and assembled with soft parts proof against high concentrations of alcohol (Again, no such items for our cars) -A very large, stainless steel fuel filter proof against high concentrations of alcohol Energy content: E85 contains only 83,263 BTU per gallon, while gasoline contains 114,132 BTU per gallon. This is why the jets in the carburetor must be larger. For any given task (getting you a certain distance at a certain speed) fuel economy will drop by about 30%. Of course, E85 has a much higher octane rating than gasoline, so higher compression could be used to gain back some of the lost efficiency. But, doing so would lock you into using only E85, which is at this point not widely enough distributed to make this a realistic thing to do unless you never ever take the car out of range of a known source of E85. Factor in the retrofitment (most of which would involve high-dollar custom parts and processes) and the 30% economy drop and E85 is no longer cheaper. |
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| Author: | HyperValiant [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:34 pm ] |
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Dan,what are the chances of this E-85 fuel becoming widespread?Or is this somthing that will fall by the wayside,also if I remember correctly the alcohol doesnt offer the lubricating qualities and draws condensation more quickly than gasoline does. HyperValiant |
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| Author: | Patrick Devlin [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:36 pm ] |
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I've been trying to use the coming of alternate fuels as a way to justify going to EFI and a turbo. Always wanted to have an "alky" car. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:06 am ] |
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Quote: I've been trying to use the coming of alternate fuels as a way to justify going to EFI and a turbo. Always wanted to have an "alky" car.
My '92 Spirit (Mexican R/T clone) was put together with almost all the M85-tolerant parts from a '93-'95 FFV Spirit/Acclaim. M85 (85% Methanol, 15% gasoline) is very much more corrosive than E85. Fuel tank is high-grade plastic, fuel pump is internally ruggedized, fuel injectors are internally nickel-plated, fuel rail, pressure regulator and filter are all stainless steel, etc. The only FFV parts I haven't got yet are the charcoal canister and the main fuel line that runs from the tank to the engine bay. The other thing missing is the FFV's capability of adapting the fuel curves to the alcohol content of the fuel. This was handled on FFVs by sensor near the gas tank that senses the specific gravity of the fuel, sends that info to the special FFV SBEC (engine computer), which in turn modifies the injector pulsewidth to match. Because my car is a turbo, I cannot use the FFV SBEC (not compatible with turbo boost) nor could I use the turbo SBEC (no provisions for FFV sensor). Not sure how I'd get around this. Perhaps someone could design me a circuit to look at the FFV sensor and put a bias on what the SBEC sees as the temperature or O2 sensor readings, tricking the non-FFV SBEC into putting in more fuel when alcohol is used. Guess I'll have to look for an electronics smarty, which I am not.Hypervaliant, E85 will probably become reasonably common in the breadbasket states, 'cause ethanol keeps those folks in groceries. Other places...maybe not. Pick up the current "Popular Mechanics", which has a very good and balanced article on all the various alternative fuels and their true costs of production and use. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Another way to do it would be to have a fuel injection system that uses a wide-band O2 sensor, is always in closed-loop and has the smarts to base the Air/Fuel ratio on Lambda (won't matter what you burn) with it's Lambda decision based on the engine parameters (boost,rpm,etc.....) |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:48 am ] |
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Quote: Another way to do it would be to have a fuel injection system that uses a wide-band O2 sensor, is always in closed-loop and has the smarts to base the Air/Fuel ratio on Lambda (won't matter what you burn) with it's Lambda decision based on the engine parameters (boost,rpm,etc.....)
Sure, but that would require an entirely custom engine management system (back to big bucks).
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| Author: | Rob64GT [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:23 pm ] |
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I'll be using a mega squirt computer on my turbo slant. There is a person on the MS board that wrote the software for a MS computer to be able to use the GM sensor for the flex fuel. You would need larger injectors for the flex fuel to work (alcohol burns at 7to1 not 14to1) and an alcohol compatable fuel system but I think its doable if you want to have a turbo and electronic fuel injection. The sensor is a expensive item I think in the $300 range and larger injectors will be costly. Its definitely part of my plan for my turbo system but first I need to get it running. The second stage I will use a crank trigger and separate coils for each cylinder and the third stage is the addition of the flex fuel sensor. I think there is good boost potential with E85 fuel. |
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