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Help with spinning head
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18181		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Help with spinning head
I'm sick of the limitations of a 13 inch wheels. But after a lot of research, now I've got too many options and would like suggestions based on economy and rarety of used Mopar parts. Actually none of them appear "cheap" or plentiful.

I suspect one reason this has my head spinning is that there is no REALLY good answer. (BTW, any performance upgrades will definitely be minor - supersixing with staged carbs at most.) Another reason is that I NEED to get new tires soon, so time is an element.

Options:

1. Put in rear and spindles from Mopars with 4.5 inch patterns.

2. Put on 14 inch SBP wheels. (Essentially seems to be limited to 4.5 inch width)

3. Put in a Ford rear and whatever up front.

4. Have the hubs and axles redrilled for a 4.5 inch bolt pattern.

5. Put on pattern adapter rings (to either 4.5 inch or 4.75 inch).

6. Something I've probably forgotten.

Are there any really major drawbacks to any of these?

Replacement Mopar parts seems the most "kosher," but probably most expensive locally.

Not sure yet about Ford rear ends here.

I can get all 4 corners redrilled locally for right at $200. That includes tapped studs in front. Is tapped better than pressed?

I'm not sure what pattern adapters might cost or how easy they are to find. Probably about the same as redrilling, but solves some other problems like getting new drums and apparently very easy.

I have a Mopar rear end spotted, but the gearing is 2.94, almost requiring a T-5 in$tallation.

Can anybody help clarify this mess with really super-brilliant (or not) answers?

TIA
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help with spinning head
Quote:
2. Put on 14 inch SBP wheels. (Essentially seems to be limited to 4.5 inch width)
Am I imagining things, or were you involved recently enough in a discussion of the various wheel widths available in 14" on SBP that you should not have forgotten by now? To recap: 14" x 4½" or 14" x 5½" plain steelies, 14" x 6" rallyes, 14" x 6" Cragar S/S mags...all in current production on SBP.
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5. Put on pattern adapter rings (to either 4.5 inch or 4.75 inch).
Only if you have a deathwish.
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I have a Mopar rear end spotted, but the gearing is 2.94, almost requiring a T-5 in$tallation.
Coulda sworn you were recently involved in a rear-end gearing discussion, too. Um...what causes you to say that 2.94 gearing "almost requires" a T5 installation?
Quote:
Can anybody help clarify this mess with really super-brilliant (or not) answers?
Lots of us can, but you make me wonder if you'll remember what you're told, or if you'll wind up asking again in eight days.
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help with spinning head
Quote:
1. Put in rear and spindles from Mopars with 4.5 inch patterns.
If you find a complete A-body rear axle assembly, why not swap the whole thing? Otherwise, if you find large bolt pattern axles you are facing the cost and hassle of getting them cut down and resplined.
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2. Put on 14 inch SBP wheels. (Essentially seems to be limited to 4.5 inch width)
Actually, you can get small bolt pattern Cragar SS rims as well as old slotted mags in 14 inch diameter and up to 7 inches wide. but you would't need it that wide on a stock car.
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3. Put in a Ford rear and whatever up front.
That would work, but you would have to make sure spring perches lined up and the overall width was close and the backspacing on your wheels allowed the tires to fit etc...
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4. Have the hubs and axles redrilled for a 4.5 inch bolt pattern.
So long as there is room, this is an option.
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5. Put on pattern adapter rings (to either 4.5 inch or 4.75 inch).
I have always heard this is a bad idea.
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6. Something I've probably forgotten.
If you find a set of 14 inch small bolt pattern rims you can take them to a local wheel making shop and have them turn the wheels into whatever width you want.

Shop around on eBay and at swap meets for old unilug rims, old slotted mags, old Cragars, etc... I have seen quite a few pairs, singles, and sets of fourteen inch small bolt pattern rims sell on ebay.
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Are there any really major drawbacks to any of these?
see above
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I can get all 4 corners redrilled locally for right at $200. That includes tapped studs in front. Is tapped better than pressed?
Sounds cheap enough, I would want pressed more than tapped, simply because I think it would be harder for a pressed in stud to pull through the hub than it would be for a threaded in stud to gradually work its way loose.
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I'm not sure what pattern adapters might cost or how easy they are to find. Probably about the same as redrilling, but solves some other problems like getting new drums and apparently very easy.
Bad idea. See above.
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I have a Mopar rear end spotted, but the gearing is 2.94, almost requiring a T-5 in$tallation.
Well, what are you waiting for? 2.94 isn't that bad, and with todays gas prices sounds actually pretty good. you can always swap gearsets later.
Quote:
Can anybody help clarify this mess with really super-brilliant (or not) answers?
I don't know. I would never call what I say super-brilliant. What do you think?
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
For example:

14 x6.5 slotted mag unilug pair

unilug pair 15x10 cragar's

Just scout around places like Moparts and www.earlyabodyforum.com and you should be able to scrape together a set of small bolt pattern rims.
Author:  slantvaliant [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
... I think it would be harder for a pressed in stud to pull through the hub than it would be for a threaded in stud to gradually work its way loose.
Speaking of rear axles:

Part of the rationale for using threaded studs in redrilled axle flanges is that the threaded holes are of smaller diameter than the drilled holes required for the press-in studs. This leaves more metal around the holes. Screw-in studs(Usually socket-head cap screws) have heads to back them and prevent pull-through. When properly installed with stud-grade locktite they are pretty secure.

I think the real issue is whether there is enough metal to accomodate the new studs on these axles. On the 7 1/4" axle, you have to work around the existing stud holes, the retainer access hole, and the small OD of the flange itself. Not the best situation.
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help with spinning head
Quote:
Quote:
2. Put on 14 inch SBP wheels. (Essentially seems to be limited to 4.5 inch width)
To recap: 14" x 4½" or 14" x 5½" plain steelies, 14" x 6" rallyes, 14" x 6" Cragar S/S mags...all in current production on SBP.
That's why I used the word "essentially." Remote possibilities don't count around here (either findability-wise or national-debt-amounts-wise).
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5. Put on pattern adapter rings (to either 4.5 inch or 4.75 inch).
Only if you have a deathwish.
I don't know. Off-roaders are using them here and elsewhere, and the wheels seem to stay on whether the vehicles are on the top, side or bottom.
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I have a Mopar rear end spotted, but the gearing is 2.94, almost requiring a T-5 in$tallation.
Coulda sworn you were recently involved in a rear-end gearing discussion, too. Um...what causes you to say that 2.94 gearing "almost requires" a T5 installation?
In that endearing gearing discussion someone made the point that, in essence, going from my present 3.23 to 2.94 would be quite similar to going from first gear starts to second gear starts. And Sandy indicated in his T5 notes that he got the equivalent of an extra gear on the bottom as well as the top. That "extra bottom gear" would approximately make up for the 2.94 rear end. (Sorry for the lack of mathmatically rigerous accuracy there.)
Quote:
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Can anybody help clarify this mess with really super-brilliant (or not) answers?
Lots of us can, but you make me wonder if you'll remember what you're told, or if you'll wind up asking again in eight days.
Well, Dan, not everybody is blessed with a photographic memory. On the other hand, I have, indeed, remembered several things above. But it does bring up a point.

H_O_T D_O_G :!: There's a difference between you and me after all :!:

1. Your six life seems to be centered in the continuing, idealistic and demanding exactitude of raw data in amounts varying from the greatly prolific to the tightly metered.

2. Mine has everything to do with solving practical, rubber-hits-the-road problems where my rubber hits the road, where idealism is always playing second fiddle to putting that rubber on my roads and raw data is incidental to what I can get my bloomin' mitts on, by hook or crook. (Of course Hook WAS a crook but. . . :shock: )

Anyway, you wouldn't begrudge me a wrap-up wouldja? :cry: :cry: :cry:

Thanks
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gosh, you're right, Ross. The only SBP 14" wheels out there are the 4½" items. Silly me for thinking otherwise. Those 14" x 6" Cragars I have on my Lancer and the multiple sets of 14" x 5½" plain steelies and rallyes I've owned and used? All figments of my imagination.

I see you have noticed that the amount of info I give in an answer is variable. Good eye! Generally, people tend to get back in proportion to what they put in, and whiners and other pains-in-the-tuchus tend to get what they deserve. Of course, you're a hundred percent right that none of what I say is real-world stuff, it's all book-knowledge that has no applicability where the rubber meets the road. Good catch...looks like my little ruse is up! Drat. As for previous threads of only a few days or a couple weeks ago: Right again, you are. I'm the only one on the whole wide board who has the super-secret password to the board's search function. Muwahahahaha! I've got the power!

Not.

I'm changing my recommendation to you: Please use wheel adaptors.
Author:  dart64rg [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Dude(Ross),
You talk a lot(and poetically I might add, bravo) but seem to listen less.

SlantSixDan is a grumpy man, but methinks that it might be a lack of patience for questions that have been asked many times before.

If you search the site, or just read daily you can find almost all of the answers to any question you might have. Look at the difference between my post count and your own, I read everyday and absorb. You ask questions everyday, and many that have been answered umpteen times before.

In your case, switching to Disc Brakes and swapping the rear axle would be a good choice(I would say the best choice). Spending hundreds of dollars on parts you will most likely eventually change out in favor of disc brakes makes no sense to me(wheel adaptors, redrilled drums, etc..). Now whether or not you can get ahold of the parts you need to do this in a timely manner(before you need to replace the tires on your car) or not may be a different story. If so, buy some used tires to tide you over while you find the brake conversion and axle of your dreams.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dude(Ross),
Quote:
You talk a lot(and poetically I might add, bravo) but seem to listen less.
I've noticed the very same thing about 'im.
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SlantSixDan is a grumpy man
Harrumph! You're only sayin' that 'cause it's true! :lol:
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but methinks that it might be a lack of patience for questions that have been asked many times before.
It's not so much that—that's easy enough to handle, just do a quickie paste-up of old threads and add whatever new info is necessary.

It's more gritching when a particular individual asks a question multiple times in hopes of getting a different answer, 'cause he doesn't like the answer he got the first time (second time, third time, etc.), then waxes cute 'n' clever with pseudopsychological analyses of those who refuse to play along with 'em.
Quote:
If you search the site, or just read daily you can find almost all of the answers to any question you might have.
Yepper. I want to repeat that:

If you search the site, or just read daily you can find almost all of the answers to any question you might have.

A large percentage of my posts, I'd guess over 70%, are simple referrals anybody could do. Go look at this thread, that thread and that thread. Go read this post, go check that website, go get such-and-such a part number (looked up off RockAuto or Napaonline). I do those as a service, because it needs doing, and it's nicer and more inclusive and more efficient than "Go look it up yerself".

Another 25% of my posts, again guessing at percentages, are new stuff. Those are fun, I like doing those. Especially when they make me think.

The remaining five percent or so consists of telling idiots they're idiots, and telling fools to buzz off.
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Slant six dan was a grumpy old man
and a grumpy old man was he!
He knows about slants
and occasionally rants
on people like you and me!

Every person has a very fine 'pinion
but often persons don't agree.
You must use your brain
to find to you what sounds sane
and all the rest you must let be!


Can't we all just get along? :roll:
Author:  Rust collector [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
8) :lol:
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help with spinning head
Quote:
Quote:
6. Something I've probably forgotten.
If you find a set of 14 inch small bolt pattern rims you can take them to a local wheel making shop and have them turn the wheels into whatever width you want.
Thanks for your several comments. I hadn't thought of this one. I'll have to check out if they have anything locally. For nearly a half million pop area it's much too often "We can probably order that."
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I'm not sure about pattern adapters.
Bad idea.
I'm hearing that!
Quote:
Quote:
I have a Mopar rear end spotted, but the gearing is 2.94, almost requiring a T-5 in$tallation.
Well, what are you waiting for? 2.94 isn't that bad, and with todays gas prices sounds actually pretty good. you can always swap gearsets later.
Some guys seemed to indicate it would be a pretty big hit. MASS CONFUSION ON ALL SIDES :!: I suppose maybe there are some old timers who have already made up their minds some guys shouldn't say anything? :D But I'm not an old timer here and still have to think about it. :cry:
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Can anybody help clarify this mess with really super-brilliant (or not) answers?
I don't know. I would never call what I say super-brilliant. What do you think?
Each has his day in the sun!

Thanks again
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
For example:

14 x6.5 slotted mag unilug pair
Thanks. I never heard of these before.
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help with spinning head
Quote:
I would want pressed more than tapped, simply because I think it would be harder for a pressed in stud to pull through the hub than it would be for a threaded in stud to gradually work its way loose.
I really don't know how they do these. I'd think it would depend on how it was handled.

Are they soft studs screwed in loosly from the front?

Are they hard bolts interference driven from behind?

Huge difference between those two, as you know.

Thanks
Author:  RossKinder [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Gosh, you're right, Ross. I'm changing my recommendation to you: Please use wheel adaptors.
Whew. What a huge relief.
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