I own a 1964 Dodge Dart GT which currently has a 225 six and a 3 speed automatic transmission (with push button shifter).

But I'm looking into changing out the transmission with either a 4 speed but preferably a 5 speed transmission.

My questions are:

Is it worth it?

What is involved with this change (transmission hump modifications? mounts?)?

And if it is worth it what kind of transmission should I look for that would bolt right up to the six and have little or no modifications needed to the car (I am aware that a hole will need to be cut for the shifter and clutch pedal)?

Thanks for your input!

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

You have to keep a pushbutton auto transmission, thems the rules........




column shift autos are fair game.......

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

There is no bolt on swap...... BUT ....heres what I did!
I wanted a 5 speed and didn t know how to do it...so I made it up.

If you search on this site you will find a "group buy" project in progress.

I used a "RAP" trans from an 82 Mustang 2.3L. My car had a stock aluminum bellhousing which I used as well as the stock clutch arm and throwout bearing.A stock Volare wagon driveshaft adapted to the stock Mustang slipjoint with a combination u-joint(NAPA).I used a clutch disc ( 9 1\4") from a Ford ranger and the stock Valiant pressure plate.I had the input bearing retainer machined down to fit the Valiant throwoutbearing and the bellhousing register(big hole the trans fits into)I had to do a little grinding inside the bellhousing to allow the holes to be drilled for the trans bolts(Mustang bolts through bellhousing into trans)I used Mustang bolts and then "clamped" trans to bellhousing using the stock Valiant bolt holes,total 8 bolts!,,,pretty ridgid. The tricky part was extending the trans input shaft to mimic the Valiant one,,I had an extension machined and then shrunk it onto the Mustang input shaft(heat extension,,,cool input shaft) we used some high temp Loctite to make us feel better. It is a little tricky getting the trans/bellhousing combo into the car,,,but it all fits nicely,,,my car was a 3spd originally so the trans hump is pretty small.I had to modify the trans mount and add my own "cushion mount".
You get 2 more gears,,,,1 lower than stock and 1 (OD) higher, the low gear is really low,,,with a stock super6 i can idle up a good grade in 1st,,,and do one hella burnout even with 235/60 14 BFGs. With 3,23 gears shift points are 20mph 40mph 60 mph 75 mph.
I used a Hurst shifter handle and "T" knob just for fun,,shifter ends up in the perfect spot.
Be warned RAP is a light duty box, however it weighs 15 lbs LESS than the stock 3spd.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

thanks sandy in BC for your info on your conversion. Sounds like a lot of work though. Not to sound lazy ( or disrespectful though ) are there manual transmission anyone is aware of that will:

1. bolt on to a 225 slant 6
2. require little or no transmission hump modifications

Understandably a different bell housing may be needed and of course modifications to allow for shifter and clutch.

I am just trying to figure out what would be that best way to go about installing a 4 or 5 speed manual transmission in my car.

Thank you all very much for your help so far. I really do appreciate all posts that contain valuble information.

Also, I mean no disrespect to anyone in my replies, if I offend you on accident, I appologize in advance.

Thanks again!

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

Me again, was doing some internet sloothing and was wondering how hard it would be to fit a T5 5 speed transmission to my 225 six?

thats all, thanks for any input!

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

You've pretty much got it for 5 speeds. Others can be even worse. A relatively "bolt-in" arrangement is in the works, but aint'cheap.

An A-833 overdrive (4-speed re-engineered to 3-speed OD) would be a pretty good middle ground if you could conjure up one.

The poor man's econo-Mopar is very hard to come by. Making a mileage car, if that's what you're after, can cost more than it saves unless you're very knowledgable about available parts AND have lots of them nearby. Fail in either of those and you're very nearly s___ out of luck.

Jeeze!..Half the stuff on my car that is supposed to bolt up or fit in the available space doesnt ......

If you are looking for Camaro-like simplicity and economy I suggest you....buy a Camaro. There is no easy/cheap way to do a 5 speed in these cars unless you are willing to seriously plan and scrounge.

For the money and ease of installation you cant beat Lou's group buy. If that seems too expensive or difficult Im sorry but your just not in the game.

It seems like 3 times a week somebody looks past the big easy way to do this....looking for something easier and cheaper....I dunno...

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

look, I'm sorry if this is angering you, I'm just a little new to this game alright.

I'm 16, this is my first car and I'm trying to look for some options to squeezing out some more economy from this six and at the same time having some with it.

I'm leanring as I go. And i'm not looking for something that will cost me just $50, if it's that cheap it propably wouldn't last.

As for the Lou's group buy, I saw that and I'm seeing a lot of modifications needed.

So as to make things easier (and I think this was posted earlier) I'm NOT considering a 5 speed any longer. Period. But I do appreciate everybody who picthed in HELPFUL information on a 5 speed conversion.

But it would seem to me that a more logical route would be to look into a 4 speed of some sort like the A-833 or a variation there upon.

And if all this mind changing is frustrating you then theres no reason you have to post back. I would appreciate it if you would seeing as you most likely know more then I do and I could probably learn something from you. But I'm not forcing you to reply.

In any case, with that out of my system (and I do apologize for that), is there any information that would help me to figure out if this is even a route worth looking into.

Thank you all again.

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

My post was brief, but I think it was pretty much right on.

A-bodies came out as a change from gas hogs, but didn't really do all that well at it, really. Later on they included some overdrive transmissions that apparently did better, but there didn't seem to be a lot of them made. The 4 speed came along first, but the overall gear range wasn't a lot differenf from the 3 speeds, altho they are a little more on the mileage side with the starting ratio of 4 spd being 3.09 versus 3 spd 3.22. The overdrive was a trick transmission with 4th gear becoming 3 gear and 3rd gear becoming overdrive - if I have it right. The result was a final drive of .73:1 instead 1:1.

Unless you live in a Mopar friendly area you'll find it hard to find either of these trannies, unless you want to pay shipping across the country from wherever one happens to turn up. I see some in Florida.

For $2200 you can buy an add-on overdrive unit. You can buy a LOT of gas for that. Its pretty much a lot of luck and a lot money or a lot of research and labor and a lot of money. A lot of guys who want mileage just keep tuned up well and maybe run oversize tires, which can effect handling as well as speedometer accuracy.

The A bodies are an economy car compared to a Fury or Monaco. My '73 Duster with a 225 and automatic would get 19 MPG on my college commute. A good friend had a 383-4bbl Coronet and the best he ever got was 13 MPG. 50% better mileage is nothing to sneeze at. If you want better city economy weight is the big enemy. Highway economy is dictated mostly by aerodynamics and rolling resistance. Our cars came with economical gearing from the factory and unless you live in Kansas and drive like my grandma Mary changing the factory gearing will get you only a little. Sometimes very little. If you want a super economy car you're best off buying one rather than trying to build one. Whatever you do, make sure what you drive runs as well as it can.

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Joshua

Here in Kansas -- Wichita -- G-ma Mary just got a ticket for following too closely!!!! HaHa\ local force needing some funding!!

That's the beauty of the mid west-- open roads & sometimes a 60 mph tail/head wind depending on destination!!!

as for mileage-- a good tune up, maintain the car & careful driving habits will help a bunch!!!

Well, at this point, I've done some more research, and I'm pretty much stuck with having to go to the local Pick-n-Pull yard and look (and pray) for a vehicle that would have a A-833 4 speed OD transmission and compatable slant six bellhousing (plus pull out all needed parts i.e. pedals, linkages, etc.).

So, the final question is. Does anyone think that it would be worth it to even consider attempting this conversion?

Thanks for your input!

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

Why not drive the car with the automatic for a while and see how you like it? Converting to a manual box is a lot of work.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

That is a good point, considering it hasn't been driven in probably 20 years (rough estimate considering history) it would probably be a good starting point to do so.

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1964 Dart GT
225 "Super Six" w/ Weber 38 DGES
GM HEI, Nippon Denso 80A Alternator and high torque mini starter

You also need to consider the cost vs the benefit. You can get a bolt on overdrive unit for about $2200 but you'll never recoup the cost with the fuel savings. If you want to do the conversion for the enjoyment of wrenching or to learn about how to work on your car, or even to make it perform better that's well and good but when you add up the cost of the transmission and all the related parts along with the machine work, cutting and welding you'll have to do to make it fit you will have several hundred bucks invested and countless hours. When you figure a realistic amount for fuel economy improvement ( probably 10% or so at best ) it will still take a long time to recover the cost. Usually, simple modifications to your driving style along with proper maintenance will get you almost there anyway and with a lot less cost and effort.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.