Slant Six Forum :: 74 Dart tranny into a 63 push button Valiant???

So, if I understand the above two replies I need to modify the push-button shifter by sending the unit and cables to that company.

Does this still require the additional hardware?

I planned to swap the complete rear end as well (rear axle, pumkin, brakes, etc.). Would this make a difference?

Seems it might be better, and cheaper, to find a working push-button 904.

I planned to swap the '74 225 as well (engine and tranny together) does this pose any problems?

Dan, please elaborate. I was not aware of any strength differences. Only the difference in the size of the axel bearings, in different years.

I really did not want to modify the floor pans.

And the strength issue, along with axle ratio concerns me.

My current engine and tranny (in the 63 Valiant) have sat for over 25 years. The coolant chambers are clogged and the engine looks overall very sluggy with oily goo.

The push-button shifter cable was broken (yes, like torn right from the controls)

I guess I should yank the whole 225/904 out of the 63 and give it a overhaul, if you think it is worth it.

Is there a method to bench test the tranny?

Quote:

Dan, please elaborate. I was not aware of any strength differences. Only the difference in the size of the axel bearings, in different years.

The 7Â¼" rear axle has 4 spider gears up to about '72 or so, only 2 spider gears thereafter.

Thanks Dan,

I really did not want to modify the floor pans. And the strength issue, along with axle ratio concerns me. The 74 is intact and a driver so I could simply sell it.

My current engine and tranny (in the 63 Valiant) have sat for over 25 years. The coolant chambers are clogged and the engine looks overall very sluggy with oily goo. The push-button shifter cable was broken (yes, like torn right from the controls), so I have always suspected a tranny issue.

I guess I should yank the whole 225/904 out of the 63 and give it a overhaul, if you think it is worth it. Is there a method to bench test the tranny? Your help is more benefical than you know. THANKS!

Here are some options:
1) Swap the engine & trans from the 74 into the 63 by changing the engine's oil pan / pick-up tube, install a 66 steering column / shift linkage or any floor shifter to support the "non cable" trans shifting, change the speedo cable to a 66 type and modify the drive shaft for the "slip-in" yoke.

2) Swap the 74 engine with oil pan change, use the special adaptor to mate it to the 63 pushbutton trans. Replace the bad shifter cable and troubleshoot the 63 trans to get it to work right. (worst case, rebuild it or swap in a good used trans., I have a few of those)

Author:	Mike63NJ [ Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:	74 Dart tranny into a 63 push button Valiant???
Hi all, I recently purchased a 1974 Dodge Dart Swinger (4dr with 225/904). This is a column shifter. Can I use this transmission in my '63 Valiant push button? Is there a modification kit or mounting hardware required? Any help would be appreciated - I am a rookie, but trying to learn.

Author:	65 dartman [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:03 am ]
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Contact Imperial Services ( www.imperialservices.net ). I believe they are now producing the adapter to let you use a 66 and later transmission with pushbuttons

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:23 am ]
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The 74 trans will not fit the 63 engine, with out mods. Special torque converter, with a small pilot and large input splines, or switching the front internal parts of the trans (pump, input shaft, clutch drum) to the 63 parts. also the drive shaft would have to be change, along with the shifter setup.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:12 am ]
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You cannot do this swap without expensive and extensive modifications and adaptors. Best to rebuild the '63 transmission.

Author:	Mike63NJ [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:16 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks. So, if I understand the above two replies I need to modify the push-button shifter by sending the unit and cables to that company. Does this still require the additional hardware? I planned to swap the complete rear end as well (rear axle, pumkin, brakes, etc.). Would this make a difference? Seems it might be better, and cheaper, to find a working push-button 904. I planned to swap the '74 225 as well (engine and tranny together) does this pose any problems? Loads of help, thanks!!!

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74 Dart tranny into a 63 push button Valiant??? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18273	Page 1 of 1

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:09 am ]
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Quote: So, if I understand the above two replies I need to modify the push-button shifter by sending the unit and cables to that company. Yes, at $265 + shipping + waiting time + removal and installation labour. Quote: Does this still require the additional hardware? The $265 to Imperial Services gets you all the hardware to control the later transmission with the pushbutton controls. There would still need to be (minor) floor pan modifications to clear the later transmission, a modified driveshaft, andâ€”if you plan to use the '74 trans behind the '63 engineâ€”a custom torque converter or crankshaft/trans modifications. Quote: I planned to swap the complete rear end as well (rear axle, pumkin, brakes, etc.). Would this make a difference? No. Note the '74 rear axle, if it is a 7¼" unit (9-bolt rear cover) is weaker internally than the '63 7¼" rear, and the ratio is most likely different (2.93 or 3.23 in the '63, 2.76 in the '74). If the '74 rear axle is a 10-bolt unit (8¼"), it is stronger than the '63 rear, but be careful of having rear brakes larger than the front brakes. Quote: Seems it might be better, and cheaper, to find a working push-button 904. For sure! Quote: I planned to swap the '74 225 as well (engine and tranny together) does this pose any problems? No, not as such: It eliminates the need for '63-engine-to-'74-trans adaptation, but you still would need a different/custom driveshaft and the pushbutton control modification/adaptation and the floorpan mods.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:20 am ]
Post subject:
No. Note the '74 rear axle, if it is a 7Â¼" unit (9-bolt rear cover) is weaker internally than the '63 7Â¼" rear, Dan, please elaborate. I was not aware of any strength differences. Only the difference in the size of the axel bearings, in different years.

Author:	Mike63NJ [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:24 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks Dan, I really did not want to modify the floor pans. And the strength issue, along with axle ratio concerns me. The 74 is intact and a driver so I could simply sell it. My current engine and tranny (in the 63 Valiant) have sat for over 25 years. The coolant chambers are clogged and the engine looks overall very sluggy with oily goo. The push-button shifter cable was broken (yes, like torn right from the controls), so I have always suspected a tranny issue. I guess I should yank the whole 225/904 out of the 63 and give it a overhaul, if you think it is worth it. Is there a method to bench test the tranny? Your help is more benefical than you know. THANKS!

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:32 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Dan, please elaborate. I was not aware of any strength differences. Only the difference in the size of the axel bearings, in different years. The 7¼" rear axle has 4 spider gears up to about '72 or so, only 2 spider gears thereafter.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:37 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I really did not want to modify the floor pans. Well, let me clarify: We're talking about hammer-dinks here and there to clear protrusions on the trans. Not cutting and welding. Quote: And the strength issue, along with axle ratio concerns me. The different axle ratio could be a benefit or a hindrance, depending on how the '63 is used. Mostly city, mostly highway? Fact is, axle ratios kinda went opposite the way they should've gone. The lightweight early A-bodies got super-deep axle ratios (3.55, 3.23) that really had the engine spinning fast (and gobbling up gas). The later, much heavier A-bodies had tall, cruisy ratios (2.76) that tended to make them slugs off the line. A 2.76 rear axle in a '63 Valiant would not be unreasonable! As for the strength issue: Don't worry too much about it. The 7¼" (early or late) is plenty strong enough in a stock slant-6 A-body, as long as it's kept full of the proper grade of oil. "weaker" is a relative term. Quote: My current engine and tranny (in the 63 Valiant) have sat for over 25 years. The coolant chambers are clogged and the engine looks overall very sluggy with oily goo. OK...you could probably get this old engine back into running shape, but after 25 years of sitting, there are probably stuck rings and valves and other such nasties. Quote: The push-button shifter cable was broken (yes, like torn right from the controls) Ouch. So you'll need a replacement cable. Quote: I guess I should yank the whole 225/904 out of the 63 and give it a overhaul, if you think it is worth it. No reason why not, unless these units have hard physical damage (hole in the block, for instance). Quote: Is there a method to bench test the tranny? Yes, but the "bench" required is a hugely expensive and very specialised piece of equipment found only at a few large-scale performance transmission builders' facilities. 25 years of sitting? Just go ahead and rebuild it.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:44 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Dan, please elaborate. I was not aware of any strength differences. Only the difference in the size of the axel bearings, in different years. The 7Â¼" rear axle has 4 spider gears up to about '72 or so, only 2 spider gears thereafter. Sorry, Dan. Beg to differ. I have never seen a 7 1/4 open rear with 4 spider gears. I even went out to the shop and looked at two cariers I have on the shelf. My 66 and 69 FSM also show the 7 1/4 with two spiders. Now the only ones I have seen are from 64 till the early 70's, but late enough to have the large bolt pattern. I have never seen the 60-63 rears. Are you sure, you're not thing of the suregrip units? The early "clutch" type SG's had 4 spiders. The later "cone" type only had two spiders. Just compared two I have on the shelf. The clutch type is from a 1965 Valiant. The cone type is from a 76 Duster.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:23 am ]
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I could certainly be crossing up SG vs. open rather than early vs. late.

Author:	Doctor Dodge [ Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:22 pm ]
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Quote: Thanks Dan, I really did not want to modify the floor pans. And the strength issue, along with axle ratio concerns me. The 74 is intact and a driver so I could simply sell it. My current engine and tranny (in the 63 Valiant) have sat for over 25 years. The coolant chambers are clogged and the engine looks overall very sluggy with oily goo. The push-button shifter cable was broken (yes, like torn right from the controls), so I have always suspected a tranny issue. I guess I should yank the whole 225/904 out of the 63 and give it a overhaul, if you think it is worth it. Is there a method to bench test the tranny? Your help is more benefical than you know. THANKS! Here are some options: 1) Swap the engine & trans from the 74 into the 63 by changing the engine's oil pan / pick-up tube, install a 66 steering column / shift linkage or any floor shifter to support the "non cable" trans shifting, change the speedo cable to a 66 type and modify the drive shaft for the "slip-in" yoke. 2) Swap the 74 engine with oil pan change, use the special adaptor to mate it to the 63 pushbutton trans. Replace the bad shifter cable and troubleshoot the 63 trans to get it to work right. (worst case, rebuild it or swap in a good used trans., I have a few of those) 3) Pull and rebuild the 63 engine and trans. DD

Author:	Mike63NJ [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:33 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks Doc, With regard to option one: Quote: Here are some options: 1) Swap the engine & trans from the 74 into the 63 by changing the engine's oil pan / pick-up tube, install a 66 steering column / shift linkage or any floor shifter to support the "non cable" trans shifting, change the speedo cable to a 66 type and modify the drive shaft for the "slip-in" yoke. This seems viable, however I want to maintain the push-button function. They are pretty cool and conversational. Quote: 2) Swap the 74 engine with oil pan change, use the special adaptor to mate it to the 63 pushbutton trans. Replace the bad shifter cable and troubleshoot the 63 trans to get it to work right. (worst case, rebuild it or swap in a good used trans., I have a few of those) This seems more realistic for my skills. I do have the new cable installed. Send me a PM for a quote on a used Tranny you might have. Do you know where I might get the oil pan and the special adaptor? Do I also need new motor mounts? I suppose I could do without the emmisions stuff and keep the electronic ignition on the 74. Any thoughts on the rear end of the 74 onto the 63. Basically my brakes are froze and a couple of lugs are broken on the 63, while the 74 turns nice and the brakes work fine. I suppose a modified crankshaft might be in order. If it isn't realistic or cost effective to use the 74 parts I am inclined to keep the 74 together so I could drive or sell it. $475 for just an engine (out of the 74) seems expensive. With that said, anyone need a drivable and nice 74 Dart Swinger wih 51K miles Thanks and I look forward to your suggestions (everyone).

Author:	DionR [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:51 pm ]
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You might also look at A & A Transmissions. They have a conversion cable, P/N AACCP, for '66 and up TorqueFlites in a '62-'65 vehicle. It's $150. Wasn't able to find it online in their catalog, so it still might be a dead end. Don't think it needed you to send your typewriter in, either.

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