For the master cylinder and Brake system of course! (I dont know what you were thinking)


How hard is it to swap your regular brake system over to Silicone fluid.

I have heard that you need to flush it with rubbing alchol first? Is this correct.



I was considering it on a few cars. -

Leave me all your pros and cons, Thanks!


Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

I've never used silicone brake fluid but i was considering it a couple of years ago and decided against it. There are 2 issues that I know of. First, as you mentioned, the system must be flushed clean of all previous brake fluid. It sounded to me like you should probably disassemble the master cylinder, calipers, and wheel cylinders and clean them thoroughly as well, or replace them. After you get all that done and get the new fluid in there you will have issues with pedal feel. It turns out that silicone fluid has an affinity for air and will retain trapped bubbles for months before it all gets worked out of the system. In the meantime you will have a low and spongy feeling brake pedal. This information is based on my reading about the subject, as I said, I haven't actually used it.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Also, since silicone DOT 5 brake fluid is not hygroscopic, any moisture that gets in the system will fall to the lowest points and accumulate there, causing rapid localised corrosion.

If you can get a handle on those two issues (bubbles and moisture), then silicone fluid isn't such a terrible idea.

But, what's driving the desire for it? If you're after extremely high-temperature brake fluid, use DOT 5.1, which gives the ultra high temperature performance but in a glycol formulation.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I've run DOT5 for years w/o any problems; I convert to it only when I'm totally rebuild a brake system.

I used a trick I read about somewhere; gently tap the cylinder w/ a ball peen hammer to help dislodge any bubbles while bleeding and to take your time. I let the bubbles rise in the MC for a few minutes.

I've found that stainless lines are more prone to leak than mild steel, so I'd strongly recommend following Fine Line's recommendation of using some liquid teflon sealant at the fittings (see their webpage for details).

So If I used the DOT 5.1 I just flush the system of the old junk and refil with 5.1? with no further cleaning?

I have a 73 318 Barracuda that goes through Master cylinders about every 2 years. I have always run the regular fluid in it. I use the stock Cast iron M/C and it takes a lot of heat from the small block.

Just checking some options here.

Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

Correct, DOT 5.1 fluid is fully miscible and compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluid, so no super-cleaning effort is required.

You may want to install one of the "hemi" master cylinder heat shields.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan, where do you get the DOT 5.1?


I dont believe I have seen it an the local parts store. Can you mail order it from summit / Jegs' ETC?


Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

That is a truly lovely Dart my friend. You should feel quite thankfull to have it. I'm sure it was not gotten that way easily. If it is a "survivor", that is unrestored, then you are even more fortunate.
I have had dot 5 in my brake systems for years. I like it, and would do it again. I have never had a problem with it, and it stays clean and clear much longer then dot3-4etc. It is incompatible with anti-lock brakes and automatic traction control systems however, so it is mostly useful for older cars. I had a modern Corvette for awhile with all the elecronic bells and whistles and you could not put dot-5 in it.

As I understand it, the Dot5 is most useful for cars that are not driven much, but just sit in the garage and go out on weekends. I took my car to a shop with a power flush, and had them flush the brakes, and follow up with the dot5 install. I never had a problem. Pedal has felt great, right from the start. I did it simply because the dot5 doesn't raise hell with the paint around the MC. AFter working hard to restore the cars, I didn't want DOT-3 brake fluid messing it up. And mess it up it will.

On my '70 DArt, which I have since sold, I laid a spare tire in the spare tire well. This tire had been on the car when I had bled the brakes with dot-3. The residue on the tire from bleeding the brakes, which had taken place years earlier, ate the high-quality hardened urethane paint off the spare tire well bottom.

You can do what you feel you need to of course, but I don't think I would try to bleed the brake system of Dot-3 and follow it up with Dot-5 myself. It doesn't cost that much to have a shop do this. They get annoyed at me anyway because I do almost everything myself. I typically take work to the local shop which doesn't make them much money. I do all the real money makers myself. It is nice to once in awhile throw them a bone of some kind and pay them to do something. Not only that it gives them a chance to ooh, and aah over your old gem.
Sam

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DOT 5.1 fluid is indeed tough to find. Wagner has it in their product line (don't know who stocks it, though), as does Motul, Ferodo and SynLube (in two versions, regular and ultra long life—I have no experience with this company's products).

Really good, comprehensive article on brake fluids here, BTW.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks Sam an Dan, I will look into the 5.1 Fluid

And Sam, No the car is not a survivor, although it does wear all factory 2 tone colors.


Lotta work there.




Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

Hi Greg. I tried sending you a PM, and and e-mail, and they bounced back or did not go through. Nice web site. I am planning on being up in PA later this summer. I would love to stop in for a short visit and say hi. I can show you my '69 Dart, and will get to see your '69 in person. Send me an e-mail at spowell786@versizon.net if you are interested in having a visitor. Even if we can't get together, I can e-mail you a photo of my '69. Oh by the way, I am a music person too. I own a piano store. Our web site is Pianocraft.net For years I was a choir director as well. I take it you are a reed player/ teacher.
Sam

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I was over at a Canadian Tire yesterday, and—having read the brake fluid article I linked above—took a look at what they offer for brake fluid. Interestingly enough, they had three different grades of DOT 3 brake fluid. Regular 401°F, "Premium ABS" 455°F, and "Ford" 478°F. They also had DOT 4 442°F and DOT 5 silicone, but no DOT 5.1

Looks like that Ford fluid, either under the Ford P/N mentioned in the linked article or from a parts store, might run a close and economical second preference to DOT 5.1 fluid.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks again Dan - I have aguess as to why the ford desingation exists.



The Big old 428's they used to shove in those mustangs probably put off tons of heat and with those huge shock towers and large braces under the hood I would imagine things would get pretty steamy in there.


Greg

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http://www.youtube.com/hyperpack

That's certainly a possibility. The article I linked mentions another equally-plausible reason (dumbcluck Lincoln drivers riding the brakes).

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.