I am in the middle of this upgrade and would like to offer this info to answer questions or guide others BEFORE they try it.
M/Body (Rear wheel drive - 5th avenue - 81 to 84) Disc Brakes in your A-Body.
The complete spindle with brakes and rotors from this model donor car WILL work.
1. The 5th Avenue spindle (81 to 84) is fine as purchased/salvaged. Rt for Rt and Lt for Lt. No need to concern your self with swapping the spindles Rt for Lt (caliper forward mounting) to avoid the Calliper hitting the Sway Bar end or mount.
2. The lower steering knuckle arm must be replaced with the Newer A-body ball joint since the M-Body does NOT have a ball joint in it.
3. Because the Lower Steering Knuckle was tapped for threads the new Ball Joint will have to be mounted with Grade #8 Bolts and self prevailing lock nuts. Nuts to the inside.
4. A GREAT upgrade is to instal the new tubular upper A-Arms which come with the larger upper ball joints.
NOTE: I have a request into Moog because one of their engineers said they HAVE a heavier shank, screw in, ball joint that will fit the smaller bore in our original small ball joint A-Arm. It was used on mid to late 60's Station Wagon and HD 4dr A-Bodies for export that had the larger 5 X 4.5 Bolt pattern all around.
I will get this info and post here shortly.
5. Your original tie rods will fit the end of the newer lower ball joint.

I'll stay in touch.
Terry

_________________
Terry Bogusz
From Super 6 Left turns to Straight again.

Thanks for the info.
I look forward to getting that part number!
While you're under the car, consider upgrading the tie rods to the larger-diameter C-body units, or at least replace the originals. Same price, better. My originals were very, very tired.

_________________
"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

Terrific info. I look forward to that special ball joint P/N, too.

You specifically call for '81-'84 M-body parts. Are you certain '85-'89 M-body parts won't work?

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I'd ask too since the spindle you're playing with has a junkyard swap of the following:

Aspen, Volare, Chrysler 1979-1989 RWD, Diplomat 1977-1989
Imperial 1981-1983, Mirada, LeBaron 77-81, etc...(late B-body? "iso" cars)

The Caliper is pretty much a 1976+ set.


keep us updated.

-D.Idiot

Hope I got that Body Code (M) right for the rear wheel drive 5th Avenue...?
Started the assembly tonight. Left side first.
Got my bone yard spindles and caliper mounts back from the Local Starter, Alternator rebuilder shop this afternoon.
Note: These guys usually have a non distructive blasting unit or cabinet and will throw your smaller parts (Nothing bigger than a #55-MT truck starter = 20" long and 6" in diameter) in with their daily parts for clean-up. Cheap. Clean the grease off first.
Put a nice coat of Rustoleum on them when I got home, before assy.
Picked up 4 Truck Frame 5/8" crossmember bolts and locking nuts to attach the lower 70's A-Body ball joint to the 5th Avenue spindles. Fit perfect.
Another note is for the installer to TRIM off some 1/4" extra meat at the NUB (protrudes from the Ball joint forging) that contacts the lower control arm limiting the amount of turn with the caliper to the inside - rear.
Found my Lancer tie rods were in great shape so I used them instead of the 5th Avenue assemblies (which my Auto Recycler included)..

Please bare with me on this long winded explanation for this upgrade. I received (downloaded) the instructions for this swap from Moparts.com.
In it they FIRST state that we can ONLY use late A-Body, large bolt pattern, disc brake EVERYTHING to do this.
I beg to differ and don't want to OR NEED TO spend that kind of money to do this right and safely.
I will keep the progress coming as I finish.

Right now I'm waiting for the tubular uppers out of Windsor, but I will pass on the large shank Ball joint swap for the older drum upper A-Arms when I get it. I had the A-Arms ordered and paid for, before I ran into the MOOG rep.
This saturday I hope to be camped out at the MOOG distributor working with one of the OLDER guys (like me) who has faced many people walking in with a single ball joint in their hand and very little info on what car it came out of.
He may be able to eyeball the cross for this small bore (K-704) large shank (K-772) screw or press in ball joint.

I've been restoring Dodge A-100 Pick-Ups for 15 years now and THOSE have had me pulling my hair out finding replacement parts for.

Terry

_________________
Terry Bogusz
From Super 6 Left turns to Straight again.

Right here (red circle) on '74 Duster knuckles with a '64 LCA. I assume that FMJ knuckles are similar. Note the mark this unmodified one has already left on the LCA.

_________________
"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

AI always assumed that nub was there as positive mechanical stop to keep you from stessing something more delicate like brake lines, or perhaps to keep the rotors from rubbing up against something. Can you see any problems in letting the knuckle rotate further? What would interfere, or limit travel if that nub were not there? Mine hs those nubs, but of course my car is a real hybrid setup as well.

I am glad you are trying this M body spindle swap, as there has been talk and controversy over using them on A body cars for years. I will stay tuned.
There is a web site somwhere that talks in great detail about the benefits of using them, but it got into technical realms that went over my head. Just tell us how it drives when you are done.
Sam

_________________

True. But when you mix parts, the stop is no longer necessarily in the right place.

You should keep the nub, but carefully remove material to adjust the steering limits. Check often for just the kind of problems mentioned in Doc's post here: http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... ing+radius

Basically, make sure that the tires don't rub on anything, that the brakelines don't stretch or get pinched or rubbed, etc. Consider vertical motion as well - it's a good test of your spatial relation skills.
I wouldn't start off with 1/4" off the end. It's going to be a little different on every car, depending on factors such as the rim dimensions, offset, tire size and actual shape, exact combination of knuckles and LCA's, height. Note that in mine, the nub has dented the LCA stop a bit - maybe 1/16".

Just look, think, shave a little, repeat.

_________________
"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

I did measure and 1/8" didn't seem to be enough so I went to the full 1/4".
(..and on an angle to give more contact area)
I remounted the tire I am using after each retrim. Plenty of room, still.
Reason I note this is that I want anybody trying this to have all the perameters. The inner tire of the turn (stopped by this nub) needs a more drastic angle to follow. Akerman Steering.
I didn't want to lose any tight turn manueverability.
The 5th Avenue spindle Bump Steer warning on some other sites is Moot, by the way.
Thanks,
Terry

_________________
Terry Bogusz
From Super 6 Left turns to Straight again.

any news on that ball joint #?

sb

No dice this past weekend.
Mike didn't work saturday and his boss said he wasn't going to have some shmoe (?) going through all his stock leaving a mess for everybody else to clean up.
We're going to try during the week in the evening.
Terry
PS: I have the dimensional drawing we are using.
Wish I could post it somehow........[/img]

_________________
Terry Bogusz
From Super 6 Left turns to Straight again.

TB-

Got the image you sent me and I've posted it below. One thing I don't understand: Why are you specifying "screw-in OR press-in"? Our cars do not use press-in ball joints. I'm also kinda curious (which is a polite way of saying dubious) about your guy's assertion regarding special ball joints for export A-bodies. I have factory parts catalogues with export-only part numbers (not the same as the FPCs without export P/Ns) and I show no such special export ball joints or special export 4½" bolt circle wheels/drums/etc. on A-bodies in any year from 1960 through 1972 (1973+ got the bigger balljoints even here in North America).

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I have done Oval track control arms where we pressed a ball joint tightly into a screw-in bore. 2 tacks (weld) 180 degrees apart secured them.
I was leaving any option open for this conversion.

Back in the day when Chrysler (and the OTHER Mfgs) built specific use export vehicles, there were many 100-of and even as little as 10-of vehicles released for exclusive use and Special Applications.
EX:
1. They quit making Dodge A-100 vans and PU's in 1970, Right? All the BOOKS say so, Right? Wrong. Dodge built 300 PU's in 1971 for the Navy.
2. A 340 was NEVER available in the Valiant, Right? Wrong. We built 4 of them. 1 - 4 speed, 3 Automatics in 1968. 8 in 1969. ALL 2drs.
3. They never built a "BOLT RIGHT ON" 727 to fit a Small Block CHEVY, Right? Wrong. They were built by Kokamo (Chrysler) for Checker Cabs with 327 SBCs. AMC's had 727's AND 904's that bolted up to ALL I6 & V8 blocks.
4. They never offered a Perkins Diesel in a 1/2 or 3/4 ton Dodge pickup, Right? Wrong they built over 50 of them (4X4) for Argentina.
5. The late 60's export V-8 and /6 4dr Valiants and Darts went to S. America, the Philipines and Africa as Taxi Cabs and Police cars. The commonality of the 5 X 4.5" bolt pattern wheels in those "quite a ways away" from the Mopar Warehouse outposts, dictated the conversion to Large Bolt Pattern. In Rough Terrain the larger bolt pattern would stand up better than small, especially in a Police Car.
6. I was once told that the Australian Valiant had the Large Bolt Pattern standard, but I could never verify.
Terry

_________________
Terry Bogusz
From Super 6 Left turns to Straight again.

Eek. I regard that kind of hackery as gross abuse. Fine perhaps for racing, but I would not do it on the street.
Certainly. No debate there. I didn't say they didn't do it, I said I'm skeptical.
Correct, that statement would be wrong. In the mid-late '60s and beginning of the '70s, if a given combination of equipment and parts could physically be installed on/in a given car, and those parts and equipment were actually available to the factory, and you had access to a car salesman who was not lazy, you could get what you wanted despite what was and wasn't "available" per the brochures and books. This slowed way down in the early '70s and stopped almost completely by the mid '70s, when Federal safety and emissions regulations got very strict about manufacturers building only certified engine/trans/body configurations.
I don't doubt any of this. I knew most of it to be true before. What I'm questioning is the use of a special ball joint for this kind of beef-up job. It seems more likely that e.g. B-body ball joints would've been used.
The small bolt pattern was used on all Australian Valiants through at least 1970, possibly later.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

77 Aspen donor car. What parts should I salvage for a similar swap? I've heard these spindles WON'T work. I know the Control Arms are different (than A body).

Help