This is now an official gripe about the incredible lack of concern or support from Accel and their dealer network. I would never buy this set up again, knowing what I do now. I really understand what drove the Mega Squirt guys to develope Mega Squirt in the first place. The problem is, Accel tries to market this thing as a universal kit, which it can be, but there is not the documentation, or support to help you figure out how to get the egnition type configured for your particualr need.

I figured, reading Accel's web site, that they were going to help me through the small glitches that I suspected would come up, but they have not. They act like my concerns of: 1. at first not being able to plug into a USB port on the laptop, and 2. No communication between the distributor and ECM are minor problem that I should be able to fix on my own. The Accel tech line was a little bit helpful, but offered no real sense of support. The message you get is something like,"If we can help you we will, but it is really your problem, and we are really pretty busy right now, so maybe we can get back to you if we have time" . If their documentation were sufficient, one might be able to deal with it on your own, but is is pitifully inadequate. You end up feeling like you have spent a ton of money on something that may never work! At the very least, I expected them to say " Oh you need to buy a 'such-and-such', and we can sell you one of those." But they didn;t even follow the time honored American tradition of selling you more stuff.

I towed the car to their local dealer/install guy on Monday, and after a week of having the car, he knows about what you and I know, which is "It should run, I don;t see why it won;t". This is not what I was hoping for. He knew less than I do about what Accel's requirments and configuration are.
He seems like a dedicated guy, who will eventually figure this out, but it is not a DYI proposition by any means unless you have a Chevy small block.
He is a Mopar guy, so that is one vote in his favor.

All you guys out there with Mega Squirt up and running, you should feel pretty proud of yourself, and think long and hard about "Up-grading". The biggest challenge: the six cylindar Mopar distributor. Anybody know of an after market upgrade for it? No one outside of this site knows of one yet.

Thanks for "listening". I feel alot better now that I have expressed my frustration to someone.

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It is indeed a strange and vexing problem you're having. What is the problem you perceive with the distributor itself? Not saying you're wrong or anything, but there exist sufficient parts and variants for this distributor that you should be able to make it do whatever you want.

Or, you could just eliminate the distributor altogether.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I bet you have already done this, but have you confirmed that the pickups in the distributor are actually working?

Yea think about it, it ran for alittle wail as I remember. Rough but it ran, then it died. The guy at the shop you took it to thinks it should run, so I assume he knows the dizzy is working and all is hooked up with no open wires/curcuits.

I can only think the Accel Box has died. If you had a MSD 6A you could verify real quick that the Dizzy was working as should be. I wander if the Accel is mainly intended for HEI setup. If so you could install a HEI system on your Dizzy. But I think the BOX has died. It would not have run for awail unless the box died,dizzy died,coil died, or a power/ground problem.

Just wandering, is the system igniting the injectors when it is cranked over.

A Mega Squirt system would not be that much to jump to at this piont ($400.00 or less). Although you would be loosing out on the Accel.


Sorry to see you have all this going on.


Jess

The easiest thing I can see to do is get a 4-pin HEI module and convert the Mopar dist signal into a 12V square signal. This is what I will do to run timing control on my MSII.

I can't believe Rance hasn't seen/solved this problem??? Tried a new dist? Tried using points as a switch? Points might be the ironclad easiest way to do it. I know you'll never rev over 5500 and points are plenty good up to there.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks again guys for your support and ideas. I dont; feel quite so alone here. Here is a quick summary of details that might answer the questions asked so far.

Rance's e-mail is so unreliable that I must write him off as a source. He answers me very randomly, and I assume he doesn't get them sometimes. He even says in his web site, "call if you don;t get a response from me within 48 hours."
This does not fill you with confidence.

Total Performance,(where my car is now) has checked out the basic set up, and my wiring. He has concluded all of that is OK. The coil and MSD box work fine. The wiring from the dist to the ECM is solid. They did NOT know that the ECM needed to see .45 volts from baseline to peak from the mag pick up leads, as measured on an ocilloscope. I had to tell him that. He was measuring the voltage just as I was with a VOM, which Accel's tech line assured me was insufficient data. They will do this tomorrow (maybe, if they get to it).

There are three sources of failure here,: 1, The distributor is putting out insufficient voltage,( we will find out as soon as Fred puts his scope on it.
2, There is some configuration problem we have overlooked, (somewhat unlikely, but possible); 3. The ECM has experienced an internal component failure, (It will have to be sent back to Accel for testing to determine that).

All the patches, or amplifiers that have been mentioned are possible, but only if you know how to get them wired into the Accel harness, and that is where the lack of documentatiion and support limit us. For instance, how do you wire the HEI module into the Accel harness? What leads do you hook up to where? I have asked Rance in an E-mail, and have not heard back. I chose to assume he just didn;t get my e-mail, but there is also the chance that he thinks I am being a PITA asking these "annoying" questions about how to make the engine run. I just don;t know for sure, but chose to think he just didn't get my e-mail. In either event, he is not a source I can go to now. It is just too frustrating.

How would you employ a points switch into Accel's ECM harness? I have no idea. I don;t know what kind of wave form the ECM is looking for on what leads to do an RPM count, and set timing. There are about seven leads in the harness, and just a few are used for each type of ignition, and then you must select the specific ignition type in the Configuration screen.

I have a box of old slant distributors I am going to take up to Fred on Monday. Maybe he can find one that will work. The distributor that is in there now, IS one I have never used before. I got it from one of our forum bretheren. There is a new pickup in it. The pickup could be faulty from the manufacturer. I don;t know because I don;t have an occiliscope. It looks like the Mopar distributor is so dead simple, I don;t see what could fail in them. Can a new pickup be bad? Can a reluctor be bad? Can something in the distributor be bad besides the reluctor and pickup? I have a points distributor in the box. of old parts If ACcel made a distributor for the slant, I think much of the guesswork would be over. But who knows, maybe they can fail too. Come to think of it, i did start the car, and time it out to 20 BTDC with the Mega Squirt and the distributor i got from our forum friend. So it WAS good at one time. Could it fail all of a sudden. It is pretty clear that it was dropping out ignition sparks randomly just before it failed, as the exhaust started sounding like a rev limiter was cutting out cyliners when a drag car is set to the limit right before launch. It started back firing and popping in the exhaust.
Sam

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Yea, I am sure it is frutrating. Ok you meantioned a MSD box right? Are you trying to use it in this system? One way to see if that dizzy is doing its job is to unhook the Accel from it & just wire the dizzy to the MSD box and see if you get fire. It will still not start because no injector firing but it would comferm Dizzy,coil, & MSD box being in working order if you get fire all the way to the plugs. That would get them out of the way as far as testing.


The HEI change over would be easy to figure out which wires to use off the HEI, but as far as which ones to use on the Accel thats a diff story. I been trying to find a listing of the Accel wiring but have been unable so far. I will keep looking tho.

Jess

The accel box, and coil fire just fine. If you can find out how to hook up the HEI leads to the ACcel harness, that would be great. Of course it still is possible that the ECM is toast. It does read all the sensors correctly, and returns reasonabe values on the laptop screen.
Sam

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Sorry if I get confusing, but what do you mean the Accel box & coil fire just fine. When you crank the car over you have fire at the coil? Meaning the coil wire will shoot sparks to ground if you hold it over metal on the engine when cranking over.


Ok, I just found the instalation instructions for the Accel DIF. If you would tell me axactly what you have wired to the Dizzy & coil ( wire colors & which connector they come out of) and also tell me any other way that you have hooked it up. If you have not fried the box I think I can get you wired up right, with just using the Mopar Dizzy or with using the MSD with it also.

I hope you read the instuctions good because there is info about a few things not to do that will fry the box if you do them. And they are refering to Ignition setups.

So, tell me how it is wired now & tell me any other way you have had wired it before(when it was running and died tell me that one to) & I believe I can figure this out. It may just need rewired to fix, or you may have fried the Accel & I can tell pretty much by how it is wired or how it has been wired if you can get me this info.


Jess

If you ground and unground the white trigger wire on the MSD box, it will spark the coil lead to a ground. The two leads for from the pickup on the distributor are wired to connectors C and D on the Accel harness. That goes to the ECM as the grey and black, or clear and black in some cases. I did not hook the Accel ignition blue wire to the negative side of the coil. That would fry the ECM. It is wired to the trigger side of the MSD box, which is the white wire.

The question now is how would you wire the HEI into the circuit to get the ECM to see the right signal on the right leads. Accel's digrams fon;t really offer the kind of info that would let you know that. They do not know when you ask their tach line what the maximum voltage the ECM leads can see if you wire it for the HEI module. There just is not enough info to procede safely here. That is why their professional now has the car. It may take some time, but I think they might be able to figure this out. As he said on Friday about 4:30 PM, "this aught to work". He thinks it should work, and feels like he can figure out why it won't. He has a Mopar pickup truck with a 360 in it that has the Accel ECm in it, and is firing it with a Mopar mag pickup distributor. And it works.
Sam

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Thats good to know that he has one working this way.

One thing do you know about the Hitting Control-F1 to get wiring info from the software on your computor. From what I read there is a lot of info in there that can be gotten. I have found alot of info in the last hour & I am reading right now. Thes wire colors you just quoted are not going along with what I am finding, but that dont mean nothing really.


What is the Part# of the kit you have, and the version of software.


If I am understanding right the only way to use your dizzy is with the MSD, it want work any other way. There is also some notes on swaping two wires in the Main harness to run it these way & a resistor that is in the tack wire that has to be removed. Let me keep reading to make sure of these. This resistor could be what craped on you if it was suppost to be remove & it wasnt. It could also been why it didnt run smoothly to begine with.

But like I said I have found a Butt load of info & I am going through it at this moment. So I will have to make sure of what I am finding here.

If you could get me the Kit part# that you bought & the software version is not that important but if you have it may help.


Jess

It looks like the info I had came across that I was speaking of in the obove post was a FORD application.

If yours is a Gen 7 unit then the info I Just found looks like you have it wired axactly right & it sould go.

Here is a link that has some good docs on this unit & even has some diagnostic flow charts for( NO SPARK WHEN CRANKING).

It appears that you do need .4v coming out of the pickup, but that would be on a scoop & not a DVOM.

The flow chart if followed should get you your anwsers. The inseresting thing I seen was that even if the coil will spark when grounding the white wire it could still be the problem. Voltage going to & from the coil was critical also. But it gives test for each part of the flow chart for voltages & such when cranking & runs you though the whole ignition system & should piont you in the right direction on what the problem is.


One thing I would like to know is how you have the MSD wired into this?



Jess

One more thing, when you use the CONTROL_F1 on the laptop for wiring info it must be hooked to the internet to get all the info they have available.

Jess

Sorry to keep posting over & over. But I have went over all this info I have found. I am almost 100% sure you are wired right. In the flow chart I meantioned it will ask you to look at the Crank Ref Signal (in the calmap software) and see if it shows a reading wail you are cranking. If it does not show a signal when you do this I am going to assume you have a bad problem. This will be looking for the signal from the MSD box(white wire). Sometimes it takes a TACK ADAPTOR for the signal to match the Ignition box (in this case the Accel unit). I am afriad that when this is the case if you continue to run the car with this needing this adaptor what happens is it fries the ignition box (in this case the Accel unit). I have expieranced this before in a nother setup. But run the flow chart diagnostics and see where it takes you. The Accel unit will also shut off drivers sometimes if it finds a problem in the curcuit (to protect itself). Hopfully this is the case if this is what is going on.


Good Luck Jess

Jesse, Thanks a million for spending your time here on my problem. No need to apologize for trying to help. Although some guys do, I have never been offended by being told something I already know, and you have mentioned several things I did not know already. If you go to the wiring diagrams section of Accel's web site and look at the chart for their Accel 6A ignition box, which is made by the same company as MSD, you will see how I wired it into the system. The theory is that the distributor sends a signal to the ECM, and it in turn fires the 6A box on the white trigger wire, which then fires the coil. In this way, the ECM controls timing. The ignition box does not control timing. It is told when to fire by the ECM. Looking back on it, it would have been way easier to hook up an MSD timing control box to the Mega Squirt.

That is water under the bridge now. Tell me again where you are accessing this info about the resister in the tach line. Since the tach hook up is related to the MSD box, which is after the ECM in the ignition events chain, I don;t see how this would affect the ECM at all. I still think this will be cool once we figure it out. I really do always try to look on the bright side of things. Even when I am confused. But just 'cause you are an optomist doesn;t mean you don;t get PO'd sometimes, and ignoring that fact can lead to other problems. Thanks for allowing me to express the down side of my situation here!
Sam

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