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Oversise Valve Retainers
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19982		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  65 dartman [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Oversise Valve Retainers
I've search thru past posts for info on valve spring retainers for the 1.70/144 O/S valves, with very little info. Besides using 340 valve springs and the appropriate locks, what would is the retainer of choice for those of you using the 1.70/144/340 valve spring combo?
Author:  CStryker [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I used the Comp Cam 340 retainers w/ the wide-angle locks. Don't have a p/n handy, but I could dig it out if you can't find 'em.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
language issue here:
retainer is the plate that goes ontop of the spring? I'm on the market for those too, I got a set of 1.7 1.44 valves complete with teflon seals, valve guides, locks, but I do need to get a dozen retainers. I have the mopar 340 springs with damper but the retainer (if it's that plate) ain't the same as for the original /6 spring.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not using oversize valves, but I am using 340 springs with the dampers. I use the stock slant six retainers and keepers (locks).
Author:  Joshie225 [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
language issue here:
retainer is the plate that goes ontop of the spring? I'm on the market for those too, I got a set of 1.7 1.44 valves complete with teflon seals, valve guides, locks, but I do need to get a dozen retainers. I have the mopar 340 springs with damper but the retainer (if it's that plate) ain't the same as for the original /6 spring.
Yes, the valve spring retainer goes on top of the valve spring with the valve stem and locks in the middle.

If you have the larger outside diameter 340/360 valve springs then the larger retainer should also be used. Crane, Comp, Isky, Erson, Crower, Mopar Performance and others can all supply the retainers. They are the same as a small block so they are easy to find in sets of 16.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
[

If you have the larger outside diameter 340/360 valve springs then the larger retainer should also be used. Crane, Comp, Isky, Erson, Crower, Mopar Performance and others can all supply the retainers. They are the same as a small block so they are easy to find in sets of 16.
WOW, I have been using the wrong retainers for 30 years. I just went out to the shop and measureed the OD of some 318 springs and 340 springs, and the 340's are larger. I was not aware of that. I knew the slant and 318 springs were the same dia, and just assumed the 340's were also. Don't have any 340 retainers to compare.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
[

If you have the larger outside diameter 340/360 valve springs then the larger retainer should also be used. Crane, Comp, Isky, Erson, Crower, Mopar Performance and others can all supply the retainers. They are the same as a small block so they are easy to find in sets of 16.
WOW, I have been using the wrong retainers for 30 years. I just went out to the shop and measureed the OD of some 318 springs and 340 springs, and the 340's are larger. I was not aware of that. I knew the slant and 318 springs were the same dia, and just assumed the 340's were also. Don't have any 340 retainers to compare.
hehehe i spend more time looking at the spare pieces than assembling the thing up. I noticed right away that my MP ###049 340 SB springs where slightly larger than /6 springs, and that retainers need to be changed.

Quick question: do I need them to be steel or you can machine 'em up in aluminium?
Author:  CStryker [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aluminum would be a poor choice for retainers unless you wanted to change them periodically. You see, this is a situation where fatigue is a major consideration. Without getting into technical details, steel has what is called an "endurance limit," which means that any part can be designed so that it will (in theory) never fail. Aluminum however has no endurance limit, and as a result, any piece made out of aluminum and exposed to cyclical stresses will eventually fail. It is theoretically possible to design a piece beefy enough that it would never fail in average use, but it would have to be so large that it is not feasibly possible. This same theory is why all aluminum connecting rods are rated for a given lifespan.
Author:  emsvitil [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Use titanium........
Author:  CStryker [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Use titanium........
Lol, are you going to donate the machine tools to him? That stuff is /crazy/ to work with.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Use titanium........
Lol, are you going to donate the machine tools to him? That stuff is /crazy/ to work with.
Just buy them. You'll save a lot of money on shipping! Don't forget the 10° valve locks.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Use titanium........
Lol, are you going to donate the machine tools to him? That stuff is /crazy/ to work with.
Just buy them. You'll save a lot of money on shipping! Don't forget the 10° valve locks.
I have a set of valve locks, that came with my valves. I?ll measure them up and see if they'll fit.

As far as for titanium is concerned, I did a minor repair on a very high end fountain pen and machined a piece of titanium for the manifold... so I have tooling for machining up titanium! :twisted: that wouldnt be out of the question! seriously, I asked about aluminium because I've seen racing engines with aluminium retainers, but I think that they drop them after every race. The endurance lecture that Cstryker has laid here is very, very important and perhaps he should put together an article on that kind of considerations for the "don't overthink it get it done" kind of fabber that I know I am.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Titanium is overkill unless you want to rev to 8000 rpm. thats its main purpose is light weight so the valve train can rev higher. just a good set of 10* locks & Hardened steel retainers will do good for you.


Jess
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Jess,

10° valve locks are overkill too. I agree with Dave Hughes on this: "7° vs. 10° locks. We do not recommend 10° locks unless you are using extremely high valve spring pressures (such as 650lbs or more open pressure). The colleting action (clamping) of 7° is much tighter than the 10°. If you should encounter valve float, 10° locks will unlock much easier than 7° locks."
Author:  CStryker [ Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The endurance lecture that Cstryker has laid here is very, very important and perhaps he should put together an article on that kind of considerations for the "don't overthink it get it done" kind of fabber that I know I am.
Oh goodness, I wouldn't even know where to start. I am by no means an authority, and I'm learning more about stuff like that every day (literally). Ask me again in a couple years when I have some real-world experience under my belt and it might be a more realistic proposition.
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