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Oiling Problem with Aluminum Slant
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20439		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  dart63 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Oiling Problem with Aluminum Slant
OK, I'm running months behind on car projects this year. Normally, I've had all three slant classics out and about over the summer and I am finishing up planned work on them prior to storage for the Winter.

This year is an exception since my father passed away over the summer ;plus other unexpected projects came up costing me an entire season.

I just pulled the 62 Lancer out of storage for the first time since March. Before storing, I changed oil, 10/30W, Max Life + Wix Filter, same as always. When I went to start for the first time, she started right up....well, after the fuel pump got gas to the carb :wink:

I was greeted with a god awful noise from the engine, which lasted about 5 seconds. I can only describe it as it sounded as if the engine was completely un-oiled. I didn't think too much of it, it faded and I went about my way warming it up and driving it home.

Then, two days later, I went to start the car again, and got the same noise. The noise only occurs after a few days of sitting, starting it within the same 24 hours of previous start results in normal start, no noise.

???????????????? What's the deal? The only thing I can think of is that the oil pump is somehow weakened to the point that it will oil the engine only after several seconds of being started....almost as if it is a new pump that has not been primed.

Anyway, this is a sweet running 225 aluminum slant with only 72,000 total miles. I would rather not lose her. Any suggestions?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Change the oil filter. It's draining back into the crankcase after shutdown. I'd also check the oil standpipe the goes into the filter and maybe even pull it and make sure it's little check valve is clean. But do the filter for sure.
Author:  dart63 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Very interesting.....I was under the impression that the only check valve in line was the one in the filter itself.

Thanks for the info.

Kevin
Author:  Joshie225 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
If the oil pump is original it will be there. None of the replacement pumps I've seen have the stand pipe let alone the check valve. If the oil filter check valve does it's job well the standpipe and it's check valve are redundant.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Note that the standpipe with check valve didn't appear until late 1963 production. For midyear 1962, the standpipe (without valve) was introduced, and prior to that, just a plain threaded oil filter nipple was used. So, on low-miles original early engines, it's still possible to find original oil pumps without standpipes, or without standpipes containing check valves. Also note the original oil pumps through '64 had a completely flat cover plate, while the '65-up pumps had two kidney-shaped pockets cast in. The later cover increases oil pump efficacy. Finally, you may want to quit using that MaxLife engine oil. It's not good for the seal materials in your engine.
Author:  Doc [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
.... None of the replacement pumps I've seen have the stand pipe let alone the check valve. If the oil filter check valve does it's job well the standpipe and it's check valve are redundant.
I feel that you should have both check valves working properly to keep oil from draining back.

The oil pump's check valve / standpipe screws into the exit pathway of the filter to keep the oil from draining out thru the main oil gallery and the engine bearing clearances. Loose bearing clearances and/or thin oil viscosity will accelerate the draining thru this path.

The oil filter's check valve is in the entry path, if this check valve does not hold, the oil drains back through the oil pump and pick-up. Tight oil pump impeller / 'georotor' clearances and the position of the rotors upon shut-off will impact the rate at which the oil can pass-by the impeller assembly.

In theory, if one or the other valve is functioning, the oil can not drain back because no air can get into the system to 'break the suction'. In application, air does get in and given some sitting time, the filter drains out through one or both of the available paths.

Bottom-line, make sure both check valves are installed and working so you get instant oil pressure upon start-up. Oil filter construction and the oil's ability to "cling" to bearing surfaces will also have a influance on how the engine starts and sounds upon cold start-up.
DD

Image
Author:  dart63 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Doug, of course now you've gone and left the door open for the dreaded topic:

"Should I use Lucas Oil Stabilizer in my engine if the car is predominately in storage and not started for long intervals?" Since in the little advertising mechanical display,if you use it, the lubrication will never leave the gears or engine surfaces :wink:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Should I use Lucas Oil Stabilizer
Absolutely not. It will not do anything beneficial—your oil does not need to be 'stabilized'—but it will cause your oil to froth/foam and thereby deprive your engine of lubrication. See the detailed demonstration of that effect here.

There are certain specific cases in which a substance other than engine oil can be beneficially added to your crankcase, but they are the rare exception. Most of the time, you will not achieve anything but wasting money by pouring in additives. Sometimes, you will unwittingly create a chemical and/or physical incompatibility situation between the oil and the additive, spoiling the anti-foam, anti-wear, anti-scuff, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge and/or viscosity properties of your oil with resultant long-term engine damage.
Author:  dart63 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Should I use Lucas Oil Stabilizer
Absolutely not. It will not do anything beneficial—your oil does not need to be 'stabilized'—but it will cause your oil to froth/foam and thereby deprive your engine of lubrication. See the detailed demonstration of that effect here.

There are certain specific cases in which a substance other than engine oil can be beneficially added to your crankcase, but they are the rare exception. Most of the time, you will not achieve anything but wasting money by pouring in additives. Sometimes, you will unwittingly create a chemical and/or physical incompatibility situation between the oil and the additive, spoiling the anti-foam, anti-wear, anti-scuff, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge and/or viscosity properties of your oil with resultant long-term engine damage.
Dan, what took you so long?? :D I always play with the little Lucas display thing at the car parts counter, you manually spin a series of gears that in no way emulate anything going on in an engine, not to mention no friction is generated in the little plastic display, and magically, the stuff sticks to the gear teeth. But it sure looks impressive. :D
Author:  emsvitil [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Should I use Lucas Oil Stabilizer
Absolutely not. It will not do anything beneficial—your oil does not need to be 'stabilized'—but it will cause your oil to froth/foam and thereby deprive your engine of lubrication. See the detailed demonstration of that effect here.

There are certain specific cases in which a substance other than engine oil can be beneficially added to your crankcase, but they are the rare exception. Most of the time, you will not achieve anything but wasting money by pouring in additives. Sometimes, you will unwittingly create a chemical and/or physical incompatibility situation between the oil and the additive, spoiling the anti-foam, anti-wear, anti-scuff, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge and/or viscosity properties of your oil with resultant long-term engine damage.
Dan, what took you so long?? :D I always play with the little Lucas display thing at the car parts counter, you manually spin a series of gears that in no way emulate anything going on in an engine, not to mention no friction is generated in the little plastic display, and magically, the stuff sticks to the gear teeth. But it sure looks impressive. :D
Have you noticed how much harder it is to spin the Lucas side fast.................

:roll:
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Have you noticed how much harder it is to spin the Lucas side fast.................

:roll:
Yep. Wasn't sure if it was that the Lucas oil was thicker or that the display I was playing with had sloppy tolerances. But if it's the same way everywhere...
Author:  dart63 [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I changed the filter last night, and the oil, back to good ole 10W 30 Castrol GTX for the moment.

It will take a couple days for me to tell for sure but I think it solved the problem, in fact, the Oil filter was dry as a bone when I removed it 20 minutes after the engine was running. Then, I dropped it onto the floor since theres no other way to wedge it out of an ole Lancer and I could hear it weezing as it lay there. Max-life/Purolator piece o crap. I always use Wix, must have been desperate last time.

I hope that fixes it because I have plenty of good oil pumps around but this one looks as if the power plant may have to be removed to get at it. :shock:

I'll file a report when I cold start it in a couple days.
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