20 inches of vacuum during cold startup(fast idle) only 5 inches after warm up and choke kick-down........result.... fouled plugs resulting in hard cold restart next time.....

?? Is she screaming for a new carb?? It's hard to lean her out with no vacuum......

_________________
63 Valiant 200 Signet Convertible 170/
63 Dart, 225/
68 A100 Pick-up 225/
2006 Mitsu Raider Quad Cab (Dakota) Mopar 4.7L
1992 Dodge Stealth RT (My Mid-Lifer) 3.0L 24V

Oh, wow, from 20" to 5" depending on whether the choke is on or off...that's pretty extreme! It's difficult to imagine the engine idling at all with only 5" of vacuum; where are you measuring?

And, which of your cars is doing this, with what kind of carburetor?

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Measuring at Carb secondary, with a "T" between vacuum guage, Carb, and distributor, also checked with distributor side of hose blocked, same result.

Carter Single Barrel, 62 Lancer Aluminum 225. Also noticed the start of an exhaust leak at or around the tail pipe connecotor under the manifold.

I checked all the normal suspects, unless I have an exhaust to intake leak at the manifolds, don't hear anything there, wish I had a smoke pot to check for sure.

There is vacuum ported to the firewall probably for my push button controls, I'm going to block that and test in a second here...but then I'm stumped.

_________________
63 Valiant 200 Signet Convertible 170/
63 Dart, 225/
68 A100 Pick-up 225/
2006 Mitsu Raider Quad Cab (Dakota) Mopar 4.7L
1992 Dodge Stealth RT (My Mid-Lifer) 3.0L 24V

1bbl carbs do not have "secondaries". Only 4bbls and progressive 2bbls have secondaries. Sounds to me as if you are measuring at the distributor vacuum advance port, which is supposed to have low/no vacuum when the engine is at curb idle.
The tailpipe runs from the muffler to the rear of the vehicle. That connection you've got leaking is the headpipe connection, and it will definitely create running/driveability problems, since hot exhaust rises and gets sucked in via the air cleaner.

What're the actual symptoms you're trying to cure?

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks Dan,

The symptoms are hard starting when cold, takes many many cranks, the choke is set, butterfly closed and she gets fuel so I pulled the plugs and they were all fouled (Carbon). Cleaned and put them back, starts right up, but the first two to three minutes when cold at fast idle it is rough, lots of missing.

Once it warms a little, the missing subsides, RPM's inclrease slightly and all is well, choke pulls off properly when hot.

However onc ethe car is run for awhile then put away for a couple days, the same viscious cyle all over again, fouled plugs causing rough start.

I checked the vacuum at the base of the carb, not the secondary as I indicated before, sorry.

I checked vacuum at the mainifold and have 20inches.

I hate putting the cars in storage with known problems, so I'm trying to get this straightened out but the weather is going to force me to store it this way if I don't get a handle on it soon. Fallsunder the category of deferred maintenance I guess , and Ive always hated that phrase

_________________
63 Valiant 200 Signet Convertible 170/
63 Dart, 225/
68 A100 Pick-up 225/
2006 Mitsu Raider Quad Cab (Dakota) Mopar 4.7L
1992 Dodge Stealth RT (My Mid-Lifer) 3.0L 24V

Wow, that triggered a flashback to my Army days in assorted maintenance shops and motor pools.

"Deferred Maintenance" = "Putting it off and forgetting about it"
"Controlled Substitution" = "Cannibalization"

That sort of thing leads to hangar queens.

I'm with you on trying to get her right before storing her. I'd hate to drag it out in the spring just to have to work on it.

_________________
"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

Sounds like choke-related and/or carb-related problems. It can be tough to get the choke thermostat and choke pull-off balanced against each other such that they work all the way correctly. Are you still running the original type choke, or have you put in an Electric choke kit? Is this a new carburetor, an old one, a rebuilt old one, a 'remanufactured' one from the parts store...? And, is it a '60-'63 style Carter BBS with a pullrod attached to the choke plate itself, running through the inner sidewall of the air horn, or is it a '64-up type with external vacuum-diaphragm choke pull off?
Still not sure what you're thinking of when you say 'secondary', and where at the base of the carb did you check the vacuum?

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

"Percussive repair" = hit the freakin' thing with a hammer 'til it works right

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Boy, He ain't kidding.
I had the same occurance with a sputtering and stalling off fast idle after replacing my choke. Most of the links were badly out of shape including the tab the choke rod connects to the carb grossly out of alignment.Lots of bending to get it close -took a dozen tries so that the choke would neither be stuck closed nor open but yes the choke pull off was the main culprit in my case by not opening the choke plate enough when coming off fast idle.

_________________
"Must be British as Instructions are in English" -Ebay listing for a Sears engine analyzer located in Florida USA

Yep...that's exactly how problems develop: Little tweaks and bends and adjustments over the years all add up so that after awhile, everything's tweaked and bent out of shape. And usually there's too much choke thermostat tension and too much choke pull-off action, but if you back one off you have to back the other one off, too, until you get into the right range and then you make the very fine adjustments to get everything dialled in just right. This is why I like the electric chokes, because they have a very wide range of adjustability and you can adjust them without removing them from the manifold!

Usually, a choke pull-off (internal or external) that's not pulling off enough and/or too much choke thermostat tension, will let the engine start easily, but after a few seconds it'll run rough and blow soot out the tailpipe (and foul the plugs).

A choke pull-off that's pulling off too much, and/or a choke thermostat that hasn't got enough tension, will cause false starts (engine fires but quickly dies).

Then there are other factors like:

•Binding (choke plate hangs up against the underside of the air cleaner hold-down bail, or the choke lever binds against the underside of the air cleaner body or hangs on the choke thermostat pushrod or choke pull-off pullrod)—find and fix! Sometimes this only occurs with the air cleaner installed, so the diagnostic there is to remove the air cleaner when the engine's warm, let it cool down and see if the cold-start problem goes away.

•Sticking (gum/varnish in the choke shaft bushing area or between the pull-off piston and its cylinder in pre-'64 carbs w/internal pull-off)—fix by flushing with spray carb cleaner

•Carb draindown overnight (check that the fuel filter holds decent outlet pressure for a decent length of time after shutdown, check the carb inlet needle and seat)

•Carb boiloff overnight (check float level, check for proper thick carb-to-manifold insulator/gasket, do the fuel line mod)

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Sounds like your choke plate is just to tightly closed to begin with. The choke pulloff should pull it back ones it is running but if its just to tight right off some times it will cause flooding so bad the plugs cant fire.


Check your vacume at the PCV valve hose. Take the valve out and hook stright to the hose. This way you know you have a full vacume feed port to test off of so there is no mistaking.

Now assuming you have good vacume get a friend to help with a cold start test. Take the air cleaner off and have the friend crank it for starting. With a screw driver push the choke plate open some as it starts and see if it helps it get going. If it helps then move the plate around until you find the piont it wants to rev up and stay running the best. Pay attention to this air gap that it runs at. Then ajust the choke itself (with the engine cold) until it is just a little tighter than the piont you had it running good at.

More than likely there should be around a 1/8 air gap at the choke plate and you can use a drill bit to set this. But little ajustments can make a big diff with this. If you have vacume leaks then ajusting anything is going to be a waste of time. Spray carb cleaner around the carb & intake with it running to check for leaks. If the engine changes the way it runs while spraying you have found a leak.


Jess

Never seen a choke that was so tight as to prevent the engine even trying to fire, that would let it eventually fire and would open up progressively. I don't think this problem is as simple as "choke plate stuck too tightly closed".
This can get you in the ballpark if you're starting from a completely slacked-off choke, but it is really not a workable method of adjusting the choke properly, since it does not account for the choke pull-off adjustment.
Gap of between 1/8" and 1/4" are in the right neighbourhood, but this gap is set with full vacuum applied to the choke pull-off, pressure applied to the choke lever, and the engine off. The actual opening immediately after the engine starts is considerably larger than 1/8" to 1/4".

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Sorry about that, it's the distributor vacuum port, can't get four barrels out of my mind, I just put one on my truck with a vacuum secondary. 390 CFM, nicest running set-up i've got at this point.

At any rate, thanks for all the input, I'm going to go the long road, the exhaust manifold heat riser is jammed, the intake/exhaust gasket used previously is less than adequate so I'm not confident it is sealed, the carb needs some attention, I believe it is original and previously (Pre-me) rebuilt.


I'm going to replace the exhaust manifold, I have several good ones, have the set-up milled as a unit, throw on a Cox Bros gasket, and get the carb rebuilt at a place I trust. If I still have problems after all that you an bet I'll be back

I am keeping this one original as possible, although it does run a stock Mopar electronic ignition whic could easily be undone.

Thanks

_________________
63 Valiant 200 Signet Convertible 170/
63 Dart, 225/
68 A100 Pick-up 225/
2006 Mitsu Raider Quad Cab (Dakota) Mopar 4.7L
1992 Dodge Stealth RT (My Mid-Lifer) 3.0L 24V

I've seen chokes so closed that wouldn't let the engine fire up and if it fires up, it would foul plugs and die. Generally speaking, those engines had bad choke pulloff diaphragm, WICH ADDS for a vacuum leak too. I'd check this! Maybe his choke pulloff is good but he's missing the little wire link that connects the choke blade with the pulloff, and those carbs having no spring loaded choke blades (you know, like those on the 2300 that if they're closed but you mash on the gas the amount of air entering the horn pushes the blade almost to its original position, then the spring returns it to closed position) can be an issue if this little piece is gone.

_________________
Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

Thanks for the advice, I have no helpers to speak of however I can set the choke, then head to the engine compartment with my remote start button to see what is actuallly happening.

I'd love to defer most of this work until the Spring if possible, I have two more projects that need my attention right now......damn driving kids.....

On the other hand.....I did have some fun planned for the spring.

_________________
63 Valiant 200 Signet Convertible 170/
63 Dart, 225/
68 A100 Pick-up 225/
2006 Mitsu Raider Quad Cab (Dakota) Mopar 4.7L
1992 Dodge Stealth RT (My Mid-Lifer) 3.0L 24V