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Wrong cam?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21249		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  72polara [ Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Wrong cam?
Well, my Comp Cams 252H cam came in the mail today. It is the hydraulic cam for the '83 slant I'm building. However I think they either shipped the wrong cam, or the right grind on the wrong blank. The cam card calls it the 252H hydraulic cam, part number 64-246-4

The hydraulic cam that came out of the engine has a groove all 360 degrees on the #4 cam journal, and no holes drilled. The cam that came in the mail has no groove in it, and 2 oiling holes drilled through it... I believe that's the solid lifter configuration? Time to make some phone calls, I guess. :(

If getting this fixed turns into a severe headache, anybody have suggestions for a better than stock hydraulic camshaft from somewhere? Engine will be a daily driver; 8.7:1 CR, supersix, auto tranny, 2.90 gears, A/C.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wrong cam?
Quote:

The hydraulic cam that came out of the engine has a groove all 360 degrees on the #4 cam journal, and no holes drilled. The cam that came in the mail has no groove in it, and 2 oiling holes drilled through it... I believe that's the solid lifter configuration? Time to make some phone calls, I guess. :(

.
You are correct. That is the wrong cam for your engine. The lifters will not get enough oil. Let us know how CC handles this.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
You could maybe chuck it in a lathe and turn the Groove & plug the holes with set screws (taping them first). Not 100% sure it would work so research it first but if they want work with you it may be a option you could look into. If it would work it would be a easy quick job for even someone with a home shop.

Jess
Author:  dakight [ Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't know a lot about it but I was under the impression that the ramp profiles were different for hydraulic cams.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I don't know a lot about it but I was under the impression that the ramp profiles were different for hydraulic cams.
That is correct.

Lucky13:
72Polara paid for a NEW "correct" part, and did not get it. Why should he have to modify the cam? Is this cam a mislabled solid cam? Is it a hydro grind on a solid core? Who knows? He is lucky he noticed the problem before installing the cam.


There are people on this site, that have installed new cams, started the engine, and not had valve train oiling, due to the oil holes not being in the correct location, or missing completely. They have had to pull the cam to fix the problem.

Let Comp Cams handle it. They goofed.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
from a home-machinist afficionado perspective I'd say it's very much fixable on a home lathe. You wouldn't even need to plug the holes since they only would add oil to the tappets and that wouldn't hurt.

From a customer's perspective, I'd be really pissed off at comp. Too good I choosed to stay away from them every single time I purchased a new grind /6 cam from the states. I have used one crane cam, and one clifford, now I have purchased 2 erson's 270 and installed one of them on a friend's ride. They're excellent, not even 1º off when degreeing it with a hughes engines timing set.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
72polara - Give Comp a chance to make it right. They have been extremely easy to work with and the last three cams we have bought have been from Comp.


Tom
Author:  72polara [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I talked with a guy at comp , and he'll be getting back with me on the part. Gave him the serial and he looked it up; apparently they only list one blank for all /6 cams; i looked at their web site and sure enough saw the same info: http://www.compcams.com/Technical/CamCores.asp

He's going to call the cam blank supplier and see what's up, and get back with me. Kinda curious.

Is anyone else running the Comp 252H cam (or any of their hydraulic cams for that matter)? Did you check the #4 cam journal before you installed it? Surely I'm not the only one...
Author:  AnotherSix [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The profile of course needs to be correct for the hydraulic. Did the factory go to a fully grooved rear cam bearing at some point and drop the grooved cam journal? Maybe after the solids were phased out completely? That would solve the problem, the holes in the cam do not matter. I know with some other older engines you get what you get as far as cam blanks and have to update to run them. I just saw a set of cam bearings on ebay today, perfect circle # SH 1115s listed for 79-87, and the one bearing has a full groove. That would be a real easy fix if that is what is wrong.
Author:  72polara [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Double checking...
Well, for a reality check I got out the old cam & bearings and my micrometer to check that everything was installed correctly. The new bearings are virtually identical to the old bearings that came out.

-The #1 bearing has 1 hole and a thin groove in the center all 360 degrees of the bearing.
-#2 & #3 are smooth with a single hole.
-#4 is smooth all the way around and is the only bearing with 2 holes

#1 is the largest bearing and #4 is the smallest. When I installed the new bearings I put them in according to their number (and lined the oil holes up, naturally). Mic'ing them confirms they are correct.

Looking at the bearings listed on ebay , I think the bearing with a groove in it is the #1 bearing; it's pretty clearly not the smalles bearing in the picture, and it only has one oiling hole. Curiously, there is another set of bearings listing the same application, but none of them have a groove.

So either way, it looks like I've got the correct parts in the correct places, so I'm just waiting to hear back from Comp.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a Comp 252H-10 in my 360. I wish I had spent the extra $ for a Crane with more exhaust lift.

Does Summit sell a /6 cam?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Same ol' Comp Cams, full of guesses and backpedalling and improper parts and "Oops...um...we kinda sorta screwed up, but not really...we'll get back to you on that..."

:roll:
Author:  72polara [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Comp Cams called me back yesterday afternoon, with what sounds like good news. They called their cam blank supplier, and did come up with a /6 blank with the proper grooved #4 journal. They're supposedly grinding me a new cam right now, and it should get here early next week. They're paying for shipping in both directions for the new cam, and the incorrect cam that I'll be sending back. Seems like pretty good service to me. :)

The guy I talked to on the phone said that they've sold lots of those cams and nobody has said anything about the rear journal being incorrect... so maybe it doesn't matter too much, but I'd rather it be right. Either that or we're all a bunch of DIYers who turned our own groove in a lathe, ha.

I'm pretty pleased with this outcome, I think. And hopefully any hydraulic cams they ship in the future will be correct now.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
It's hard to imagine the lifters getting enough oil with just the holes in the cam. Maybe they have not really been shipping them out without the groove? One thing I have seen is companys telling people they are the only one with a problem, when I have talked to several others myself that had the same problem with a part and got the same story. A few years back a friend of mine was convinced by Crane that their new street hydraulic roller setup would not have oil pump drive gear problems, that the bronze gear would run over 100,000 miles in his 440 motor home. I was helping him with the buildup and could not believe the story, there was nothing new about the billet blank or drive gear. I called and got the same story. The engine shop that did the machine work called crane and was told the same thing and did not believe. The gear failed within 3000 miles. The second one had wear on it when I removed it at around 800 miles. The whole rig was sold to another friend for less than the motor cost. We ended up swapping back to a normal hydraulic. This was after a couple of years and before the change I called around to look for any new optional material for the drive gear that would last, there was not one. This time the tech guy at Crane agreed and advised that with a stock oil pump it might last 20,000 miles, might. He did not know who or why anyone would tell someone differently. Seems that the people on the phones might just say anything with no real idea what they are talking about. At least the guy you got checked on it and took care of it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The guy I talked to on the phone said that they've sold lots of those cams and nobody has said anything about the rear journal being incorrect...
Riiiiiiiiiight. :roll: Smells like CYA nonsense from Comp, to me.
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