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30 MPG '68 Dart?
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Author:  Slanted Opinion [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  30 MPG '68 Dart?
Hello All,

I am looking at a job that will require me to drive about 180 miles a day (about 90 miles each way to and from work).

A move is out of the question at this point.

Can I reasonably expect to get 30 mpg out of my 225 powered Dart (maybe with OD and higher compression), or is it time to look at a used Geo Metro (about 50 mpg highway)?

Opinions please, and thank you.

(If we get a long thread on different cars for MPG we'll transfer this thread to another topic section)

-Mac
Author:  sandy in BC [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
You will not get 30.....my old 69 Dart got a best of 24.Image
Author:  VG-265 [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:42 am ]
Post subject: 
What were Dart Lite and Feather Dusters rated at?
9.5:1 comp, 32/36 Weber carb, headers, 5 speed (or 4 speed OD), a good ignition, 2.93 gears, narrow radial tyres, remove excess weight, and drive it conservatively, I reckon you should be able to get 30 mpg.



Lets see what everybody else thinks :)
Author:  70valiant [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:22 am ]
Post subject: 
My brother in law used to get 26-28 with his Feather Duster. That was one of the few 904 equipped cars with A/C. It was painfully slow pulling out but ran fine otherwise.
Author:  supton [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:00 am ]
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Pure SWAG, but I'd guess you would need to think seriously about EFI. Bumping the compression should help with motor efficency; but EFI just works really well in keeping the air/fuel mixture optimum under all operating conditions.

After that, driving slow will do wonders, and avoiding start/stop situations. OD also, although a non-OD tranny and a really tall rear gear will work (but a tranny with that extra gear will make it more driveable).

That said, I'd recommend the Geo, if you can score a cheap one that is in good shape. At 180miles/day, the costs come out to:

180miles/30mpg * 2.25/gallon = $13.5/day
180miles/50mpg * 2.25/gallon = $8.10/day

Guessing at 3 weeks vacation time/year, say another week off, I'd say 48 weeks or 240 days/year commuting. So, fuel cost per year is:

30mpg: $13.5/day * 240 days = $3240
50mpg: $8.10/day * 240 days = $1944

Difference: $1296 per year

Now, driving a Geo is not going to be the same experience, but the cost difference is big, even if you get your Dart up to 30mpg (and that would cost $___?).

However, not all Geo's will get 50mpg: I mean, stop and go will destroy mpg's for any vehicle; use the A/C, get one with an automatic, you get the idea: it may be rated for 50mpg, but that was at 60mph under the EPA rules. Sorry for the pun, but YMMV.
Author:  Slanted Opinion [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes... The Metro was my thinking as well.

If this pans out I will be traveling this distance for 2 years. The 50 mpg highway number has been confirmed by several people.

$1300 a year is a significant savings, and in my world (as a pastor) it is a needed savings!

All of this is betting on $2.25 per gallon, which is probably a good number to use at this time. But if something big happens in the Middle East the cost could easily jump. At 3.25 a gallon it looks like this:

50 MPG $2808 per year
30 MPG $4680 per year

Now we're talking some serious money... that's either money for college or money for that 66 Barracuda I've been looking at... :D

Anyone have any good, high mileage alternatives to the Metro? Above 40 MPG on the highway?

-Mac
Author:  supton [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:37 am ]
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I do, but it wouldn't be economical... :) I drive a 2004 VW TDI, I average 45mpg on diesel while driving my typical 65-70mph. Bought it new, plan to go 250k. Not the economical choice here however: diesel powered cars tend to be high priced, no sense spending $10k to save only a few thousand.

The older TDI's do 50mpg easily (avoid automatics like the plague!); there are Jetta's going back to '96 that are TDI. You might be able to score one for $2k. They can go 300k, btw: most consider them middle age at 100k, so don't like "high miles" fool you.

You could do an even older diesel model, the non-TDI (including TD models) did get into the 40's. But they are slow.

Beyond that, I'm not sure really: I'm sure some older Tercels or Corollas might go above 40mpg, I'm thinking late 80's or early 90's, before cars started getting bigger again. I can't name anything specific though. You could go to the EPA's websight and look to see if their mpg estimates go back a few years. I'm trying to think, Geo's were available as Suzuki Swifts, there were the Subaru Justy's, I think Chevy had a knockoff of the Corolla (Prizm?), dunno about the Ford Escorts (have they all died off by now?), can't think of any other.

Unfortunately, 40mpg cars seem only a bit more rare than 30mpg cars; and 30mpg cars are rare enough. When gas was cheap, there just wasn't a huge demand...
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The problem with VWs—especially models made since the late 1980s—is their godawful dependability and stratospheric cost of parts and service.

You may not have thought of an older diesel car such as a late '70s through early '80s Mercedes 240D. They, too, have high parts costs, but are considerably more robust than VWs and vastly safer than a Geo Metro. If you can cope with zero to sixty acceleration times on the order of 20 minutes (w/o turbocharger), they fly along just fine once they're up to speed.

Making your Dart get 30mpg may be possible, but won't be cost-effective.
Author:  Slanted Opinion [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Dan,

You are correct in your advice about the 30 MPG Dart. I would bet that indeed I could get the Dart up to 30 MPG, but not without radical changes.

And... I had hoped to take the Dart in other directions (There is, after all, New England Dragway only 35 miles from where I live :) )

I'll check out the Mercedes Diesel idea... but I think that Diesel fuel here is running a good $0.50 a gallon higher than gasoline, which may negate some of the savings.

Apparently the Metro is only 3 cylinders... so it doesn't take much to keep it firing!

-Mac
Author:  mopar_nocar [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
kia-made ford festiva from the early 90s.

my folks have one (91 model) and driving not so conservativly it has been close to 50mpg even with large humans in it.

now, it has NO A/C, it is a 5speed and isn't the most fun thing to drive, but, if its all about MPG, it would work.

my dad also had a run of Mercedes D240 fever for a while. (70s models) and he did well with them for economy and ease of working on. he would drive his 400 miles between fill ups with out sweating it. don't know what size tank he had, but its better than most. however parts were NOT cheap.

my uncle also is a diesel nut, and he claims to get 60mpg out of his diesel rabbit with a 5speed tranny. he has not had any significant reliability issues out of his that i know of, but he is definitely mechanically inclined, so i may not have heard of all of his woes with that car.

sb
Author:  supton [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rabbits and late model Jettas are very different. The older IDI's are pretty simple, while the TDI's are touchy. And it is easy to get a lemon VW, one really does have to be enthusiast (or a mechanic) to own one.

I forgot about Civics. I don't know all about the years, but the wife's '01 does do 37. It'd do 40 but I never got around to putting the all seasons back on. 5 speed stick. And I forgot all about my '00 Saturn--as a 5spd SOHC, it also did 40. Problem with Saturns is they are oil burners. Mine was doing 1-2k per qt at the end, but still doing 37mpg. You might be able to score one of those cheaply; I liked my SL, it was easy to work on.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:07 pm ]
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Yup, a carefully-chosen Civic w/5-speed would be a solid choice. The '96-'99 models are better designed and built than the '01-'04 units.
Author:  64 Convert [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:25 pm ]
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I had three Plymouth L-body automatics and every single one of them averaged 32 mpg, or better in a rural/suburban mix, commute. On trips I could get 34-35. A good friend had a Horizon America 4-speed manual that averaged over 40 mpg in similar driving, and nearly 50 on trips. If you can find one, they are dirt cheap and except for carbs and door handles, they are pretty reliable. I had very few problems with mine and they all went well over 100,000 miles.
Author:  68Valiant [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:36 pm ]
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Why not try getting a mid 80's K-car? They can be found for a few hundred bucks still and got decent mileage. If I remember correctly, the 2.2 with automatic got around 28 mpg and with a manual got near 35. The 1.6 with automatic got around 32 mpg and with a manual was capable of 40-43 mpg! They are also reliable and easy to work on and also a cousin of the slant 6- you can make some custom decals that read slant six minus 2 lol :lol:

Russ

P.S. my Plymouth reliant had 230,000 miles on it when a NYC pothole gobbled up the front suspension and I finally got rid of it.
Author:  dakight [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:03 pm ]
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I had one that went 250K. It was really, really tired the last year or so of it's life though.
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