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Worth swapping stock electronic ignition for HEI?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22396		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jopapa [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Worth swapping stock electronic ignition for HEI?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 1974 model year Mopars came stock with electonic ignition, right? Given the ease of installing HEI ignition and the simplicity of its layout, is it also a better system overall and would it be worth the effort to swap out the stock electronic system with HEI, or is the stock system pretty good quality? I have zero experience with the Mopar electronic ignition system, hence the question...
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Worth swapping stock electronic ignition for HEI?
Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 1974 model year Mopars came stock with electonic ignition, right?
Right. Many of them came with problematic modules that were subsequently replaced (under warranty or after it) to correct starting and running difficulties.
Quote:
Given the ease of installing HEI ignition and the simplicity of its layout, is it also a better system overall
Yes, see this post. You eliminate the ballast resistor (one less component to fail), and you can produce a hotter and longer-duration spark, which lets you open up the plug gaps a little. My favourite recipe is HEI upgrade, install a NAPA Echlin long-tip rotor # MO-3000 with Standard-Bluestreak CH-410X cap and (if you have a '74-down head w/spark plug tubes) put in NGK ZFR5N plugs gapped to 0.045".
Quote:
worth the effort to swap out the stock electronic system with HEI
Well...the only component that you're really swapping is the Mopar ignition control unit (removing) and the HEI module (installing). I guess the components mentioned above (rotor, coil) also count as swaps. The ballast resistor gets removed.
Quote:
or is the stock system pretty good quality?
It's certainly not a bad system, and it has a good track record of reliability. But, it is getting a little harder to find good-quality replacement control boxes these days. Chrysler now only supply Chinese garbage.
Author:  Jopapa [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Worth swapping stock electronic ignition for HEI?
Quote:
You eliminate the ballast resistor (one less component to fail), and you can produce a hotter and longer-duration spark, which lets you open up the plug gaps a little. My favourite recipe is HEI upgrade, install a NAPA Echlin MO-3000 distributor rotor with Standard-Bluestreak CH410XV cap and (if you have a '74-down head w/spark plug tubes) put in NGK ZFR5N plugs gapped to 0.045".
Exactly the parts I'm ordering (I've got the HEI upgrade thread bookmarked). The guy I'm buying my Duster from says the engine was swapped at some point before he bought it, so I'm not sure if it's got a pre-74 head or not. If not, would those spark plugs still work if you left the gaskets on (which IIRC you say need to be removed due to the plug tubes), or is there a different plug that should be used?
Quote:
It's certainly not a bad system, and it has a good track record of reliability. But, it is getting a little harder to find good-quality replacement control boxes these days. Chrysler now only supply Chinese garbage.
Funny how we have a trade embargo against Cuba because it's a Communist state, but not against China, ain't it? I try hard to avoid buying Chinese-made drek, so yeah, HEI it is.

I also just read a blurb in Popular Hot Rodding about Pertronix now offering a (stable) 60,000 volt coil. Maybe a bit of overkill for our slants? :twisted:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I notice that same thing you see with our treatment of Cuba as an evil, threatening communist regime with awful human rights abuses and The Wrong Kind of Government, while at the same time we sell off our economy at pennies on the dollar to the Chinese.

The ZFR5N plugs cannot be used in '75+ heads that require taper-seat plugs. DusterIdiot says he's found some taper-seat plugs with similar electrodes to the ZFR5N, but I'm waiting on a plug number from him.

Many dollars have been separated from many people by claims that this, that, or the other ignition coil produces this, that or the other number of volts. Wrong way to pick a coil!
Author:  Jopapa [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Many dollars have been separated from many people by claims that this, that, or the other ignition coil produces this, that or the other number of volts. Wrong way to pick a coil!
Yeah I've still got a Blaster 2 that I'll use with the HEI. I would think that even if the Pertronix lived up to its claims, it'd be far more than necessary for economy tuning.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Many dollars have been separated from many people by claims that this, that, or the other ignition coil produces this, that or the other number of volts. Wrong way to pick a coil!
Yeah I've still got a Blaster 2 that I'll use with the HEI. I would think that even if the Pertronix lived up to its claims, it'd be far more than necessary for economy tuning.
It doesn't even get to that level of argument. There's no way for the coil to magically push 60,000 volts across a gap, and there are very few ignition systems that could be configured to create secondary voltages of 60kV even if you wanted to, which you don't, because this kind of extremely high secondary voltage rapidly destroys secondary ignition hardware (cap, rotor, cables, plugs), would create a massive current leakage (arcing) problem for the short time the components held up, making the engine run poorly if at all, and is well past the point of payback with increased secondary voltage. What's more, the coil configuration required to attain a result of 60kV when operating the coil under unrealistic "not in any engine it's ever gonna go on" conditions to generate high numbers to print on the box, make the coil much less suited to the job it's actually going to be doing in actual, real engines.

Blaster: Good choice.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes the voltage will never get that high anyway unless you pull a plug wire. Even with stock HEI setups the voltage can break thru the rotor and damage the module or pickup if the wires, cap and plug are not good. It will only rise until the plug fires and then drop while the current increases. I have always found Pertronix parts to work very well. I have had thier igniter and normal coil in my Chevy wagon for about ten years without trouble. That coil is 1.5 ohms I believe, so they did not try to over do it. I put another ten ignitors in various Forklifts at work and they have been fine for about 7 years. One other thing about that 60,000 volt coil, if I remember correctly it is looks like a normal canister coil but is bigger and fatter. So it will fit in the stock mount either. Dan, is the coil you are running a .4 ohm? It looks like that would be right with the HEI module.
Author:  cavisco [ Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
When looking for an after-market coil, choose a coil based upon Joules rating and RPM range. The Blaster line of coils are very good products with all their specifications published on-line for comparison shopping. If the coil you are considering does not have a published joules rating, you should keep looking! Voltage claims mean nothing. Voltage claims for coils are like peak HP ratings on Sears Power tools, nothing more than a sales gimmick and useless as a specification to compare performance. I can produce several thousand volts walking across carpet with my rubber soled slippers, but I doubt it would create enough energy (joules) to fire a plug under compression! Good OEM coils are the remote E-core GM coils and the Ford E-core coils. These coils are easy to identify. They look like a power transformer (square not round) with I and E shaped steel laminations as the core. The steel laminations increase the coil efficiency and allow higher primary current before core saturation. The Ford and GM E-core coils are cheap at a wreaking yard near you, and work well for most street applications. They are a good upgrade over the older OEM round core coils.
Author:  dakight [ Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Late model Dodge trucks use a similar coil. It is square and mounts to the front of the right side head in the air stream from the cooling fan.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Everytime I see HEI I think of GM and one of those large caps with the coil built in.

Someone builds that for a slant?

DEI?

Those FBO's look interesting.
Author:  slantvaliant [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Someone builds that for a slant?
Not to my knowledge. The stock distributor is as big as I care to deal with in a narrow-body A. The Chrysler electronic distributor works well.

You can leave the coil in its stock location or find a place more to your liking.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Everytime I see HEI I think of GM and one of those large caps with the coil built in.

Someone builds that for a slant?
Arrrrrgh...when reading a thread that contains links, please click the links before guessing/assuming.
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