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New engine build
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22427		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  NewSlanter [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  New engine build
Hi all,

I was recently given an engine from a '65 valiant. I was assured it was a 225, but on closer inspection, it is a 170. The casting date is '65, but it has what I believe to be a '74 plug tube head without air injector ports (casting #s ; 2843169 date #s 12.4.74). I have already amassed a super six intake, an exhaust manifold (cracked at the third riser and therefore perfect for a dutra dual conversion :D ) and a carter BBD from a 318 (I know this would need to be re-jetted to account for the difference in displacement, but I've been thinking about going with a Weber 32/36 DGdgevnyhow). I'd like to top it off with a better cam ( I was thinking Erson 270)

Upon dis-assembly of the engine, I see that it's already been bored .030 over and to my (admittedly inexperienced) eye I believe it needs to be bored out again (very deep ridges at the top and bottom of the bore - just where the rings stop) I was thinking 3.46 or 3.48 total bore. I've done my CR calcs to the best of my ability, and I believe I can get a 9:1 CR by shaving .040 off the head and boring out to 3.46.

I don't want to simply rebuild the 225 in my car since I'm new to this and I need an engine in the car to get to work every day. Building a motor in my spare time and swapping it in once complete is far more doable for me.

I have a few questions;

1. This is to replace my hydraulic lifter 225, carter BBS mated to an A904 3 speed with a highway ratio 8 1/4 rear in a 1970 4-door Dart. Is there any point? (I'm not looking to race this car, but I'd like a bit of wow every so often)

2. Having determined whether there is a point or not, is my proposed build in line?
Any other suggestions?

3. from reading around on the site, I see there might be some fitment issues regarding the torque converter from my '70 fitting the crank on th '65 170. Anythee have a solution or more info for me?

I read in another post something to the tune of ; "having the makings of a project can be half the motivation". This describes my situation to a tee

Thanks in advance,

Nat
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New engine build
Quote:
I'd like to top it off with a better cam ( I was thinking Erson 270) This is to replace my hydraulic lifter 225, carter BBS mated to an A904 3 speed with a highway ratio 8 1/4 rear in a 1970 4-door Dart. Is there any point? (I'm not looking to race this car, but I'd like a bit of wow every so often)
A 170 + automatic + highway final-drive ratio + 111"-wheelbase Dart ≠ any wow ever, without radical changes like fuel injection and/or turbocharging. The 170 can be made into a high-RPM screamer, for sure, but low-end torque, it hasn't got much. If you were to swap in 3.23s in the rear it'd be OK, 3.55s probably better (remember the much lighter weight '60 Valiant with smaller-diameter tires had 3.55s even with automatic transmission; '61-up had 3.23 with 3.55s optional). Also consider your camshaft selection carefully; any loss of low-end torque that'd be masked by the inherently torquey 225 will be aggravated by the 170.

That said, fuel injection and turbocharging are more feasible and less costly for a slant-6 now than they ever have been before, so don't dismiss them right out of hand. Talk to mpgmike on here and see his ongoing thread on turbocharging a '73 Dart.
Quote:
3. from reading around on the site, I see there might be some fitment issues regarding the torque converter from my '70 fitting the crank on th '65 170.
Correct. You'd have to have the counterbore in the rear flange of the '65 crank machined larger, or swap '66-'67 transmission front-end parts (pump/input shaft) into your existing trans.
Author:  NewSlanter [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just as I feared. That said, I have been thinking about swapping in 3.55's since I need to have the rear apart to replace a bearing soon.

Since I have a decent head from the 170, what would be involved in swapping it on to my 225? It currently has a hydraulic head. Would my block need modification? I need to fix an oil leak in the 225, but I am reluctant to take on any projects that would keep the car out of service for longer than a day or two (so redoing the bottom end or any machine work on the block are out of the question) If the block doesn't need mods to accept the new head, I'm sure I can undertake a cam swap and put the new head on in a weekend.

Thanks,

Nat
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Just as I feared. That said, I have been thinking about swapping in 3.55's since I need to have the rear apart to replace a bearing soon.
That would obviate the need for any kind of a decent stereo in the car (3.55s = really loud engine on the highway)
Quote:
Since I have a decent head from the 170, what would be involved in swapping it on to my 225?
Should be a remove/replace deal, as long as you use the valve cover that fits the up-to-'80 ("solid") head, but...what's the goal here? Is the present "hydraulic" head in bad shape?
Author:  NewSlanter [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, as I said I have the makings of a super six set-up and I thought I could send this head out for larger valves and some mild porting. I have also heard that cam selection for the hydraulic heads is limited when compared to solid lifter engines. I'm basically trying to get a feel for what I can do with what I have and what I'd need to get a bit more punch out of the engine.

On another note, I just found a set of 3.21 gears for my rear for less than $100 Can. Gonna call later tonight.

Thanks,

Nat
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