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Vacuum advance in a nutshell
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2243
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Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Jun 04, 2001 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Here's a duplicate of something I posted on the slantsix.com site. I had a request to post it here FYI too.

Vacuum advance in a nutshell:

1) A vacuum amplifier will do nothing except readjust or delay your timing curve. The speed with which the advance "comes on" is plenty fast with just manifold/carb vacuum.

2) Vacuum advance only advances the timing when you are at part-throttle cruise (when clyinder pressure is low) and/or at idle. You can have vac
advance at idle by using a direct manifold vacuum source, which some cars had, or you can have no vac advance at idle by using the above-throttle-plate vacuum port on your carb. The more you push on the pedal, the less vac advance you get. The lowest amount of vac advance is when you are at WOT, so you don't ping. Your advance curve will be almost identical whether you use the manifold port, or the carb port - the only
substantial difference being the one (at idle advance) I just mentioned above.

3) The number stamped on the arm of the vac pot is the number of degrees of cam rotation advance that it produces, double this number for crank rotation advance (which is what you look at with a timing light).

4) You can adjust the point at which the vac advance comes on and off by sticking an allen head wrench into the end of the pot and turning. You
can adjust between about 4-5 in Hg, to about 13-14 in Hg. I think it's CW for lower vac, and CCW for higher, but you might want to check this. Some
pots have no adjustment. Setting the pot for lower vacuum means that you will maintain advance with more opening of the throttle, and you are more likely to ping. Setting for higher vacuum means the vac advance with pull off with less throttle (less pinging). Note that when you are at WOT you pull 0 in Hg of manifold vacuum, and at idle you pull about 15-20 in Hg. Parts stores sell "Standard" brand pots that are adjustable in several advance flavors (number of degrees).

I hope this helps all you power tuners out there,

Lou


madsenl@caltech.edu

Author:  Doc [ Mon Jun 04, 2001 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance info. , Thanks Lou!

Good Stuff, Thanks Lou!
Quote:
:
: Here's a duplicate of something I posted on the
: slantsix.com site. I had a request to post
: it here FYI too.
:
: Vacuum advance in a nutshell: 1) A vacuum
: amplifier will do nothing except readjust or
: delay your timing curve. The speed with
: which the advance "comes on" is
: plenty fast with just manifold/carb vacuum.
:
: 2) Vacuum advance only advances the timing when
: you are at part-throttle cruise (when
: clyinder pressure is low) and/or at idle.
: You can have vac
: advance at idle by using a direct manifold
: vacuum source, which some cars had, or you
: can have no vac advance at idle by using the
: above-throttle-plate vacuum port on your
: carb. The more you push on the pedal, the
: less vac advance you get. The lowest amount
: of vac advance is when you are at WOT, so
: you don't ping. Your advance curve will be
: almost identical whether you use the
: manifold port, or the carb port - the only
: substantial difference being the one (at idle
: advance) I just mentioned above.
:
: 3) The number stamped on the arm of the vac pot
: is the number of degrees of cam rotation
: advance that it produces, double this number
: for crank rotation advance (which is what
: you look at with a timing light).
:
: 4) You can adjust the point at which the vac
: advance comes on and off by sticking an
: allen head wrench into the end of the pot
: and turning. You
: can adjust between about 4-5 in Hg, to about
: 13-14 in Hg. I think it's CW for lower vac,
: and CCW for higher, but you might want to
: check this. Some
: pots have no adjustment. Setting the pot for
: lower vacuum means that you will maintain
: advance with more opening of the throttle,
: and you are more likely to ping. Setting for
: higher vacuum means the vac advance with
: pull off with less throttle (less pinging).
: Note that when you are at WOT you pull 0 in
: Hg of manifold vacuum, and at idle you pull
: about 15-20 in Hg. Parts stores sell
: "Standard" brand pots that are
: adjustable in several advance flavors
: (number of degrees).
:
: I hope this helps all you power tuners out
: there,
:
: Lou

Author:  Bob D [ Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Quote:
: Here's a duplicate of something I posted on the
: slantsix.com site. I had a request to post
: it here FYI too.
:
: Vacuum advance in a nutshell: 1) A vacuum
: amplifier will do nothing except readjust or
: delay your timing curve. The speed with
: which the advance "comes on" is
: plenty fast with just manifold/carb vacuum.
:
: 2) Vacuum advance only advances the timing when
: you are at part-throttle cruise (when
: clyinder pressure is low) and/or at idle.
: You can have vac
: advance at idle by using a direct manifold
: vacuum source, which some cars had, or you
: can have no vac advance at idle by using the
: above-throttle-plate vacuum port on your
: carb. The more you push on the pedal, the
: less vac advance you get. The lowest amount
: of vac advance is when you are at WOT, so
: you don't ping. Your advance curve will be
: almost identical whether you use the
: manifold port, or the carb port - the only
: substantial difference being the one (at idle
: advance) I just mentioned above.
:
: 3) The number stamped on the arm of the vac pot
: is the number of degrees of cam rotation
: advance that it produces, double this number
: for crank rotation advance (which is what
: you look at with a timing light).
:
: 4) You can adjust the point at which the vac
: advance comes on and off by sticking an
: allen head wrench into the end of the pot
: and turning. You
: can adjust between about 4-5 in Hg, to about
: 13-14 in Hg. I think it's CW for lower vac,
: and CCW for higher, but you might want to
: check this. Some
: pots have no adjustment. Setting the pot for
: lower vacuum means that you will maintain
: advance with more opening of the throttle,
: and you are more likely to ping. Setting for
: higher vacuum means the vac advance with
: pull off with less throttle (less pinging).
: Note that when you are at WOT you pull 0 in
: Hg of manifold vacuum, and at idle you pull
: about 15-20 in Hg. Parts stores sell
: "Standard" brand pots that are
: adjustable in several advance flavors
: (number of degrees).
:
: I hope this helps all you power tuners out
: there,
:
: Lou


I just want to add that if you convert to EFI, use a throttle body, and use your existing ignition timing, that you'll have to use manifold vacuum for your distributor vacuum advance. This is because there is no venturi in an EFI throttle body. I'm using manifold vacuum, have excellent off idle throttle response, and have experienced no difficulties.
If you're convinced that you want ported vacuum for your distributor vacuum advance, and still want EFI, you could use a modified carburetor for your throttle body. However, because of the required airtight ductwork, and the fact that a carburetor is typically taller than a throttle body, hood clearance may be your biggest obstacle with that approach.

Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com

Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Jun 11, 2001 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Quote:
: I just want to add that if you convert to EFI,
: use a throttle body, and use your existing
: ignition timing, that you'll have to use
: manifold vacuum for your distributor vacuum
: advance. This is because there is no venturi
: in an EFI throttle body. I'm using manifold
: vacuum, have excellent off idle throttle
: response, and have experienced no
: difficulties.
: If you're convinced that you want ported vacuum
: for your distributor vacuum advance, and
: still want EFI, you could use a modified
: carburetor for your throttle body. However,
: because of the required airtight ductwork,
: and the fact that a carburetor is typically
: taller than a throttle body, hood clearance
: may be your biggest obstacle with that
: approach.
:
: Bob D


Bob,

Just FYI, some throttle bodies do have ported vacuum. My Holley TBI does. Personally, I like the manifold vacuum anyway. You don't need a venturi for ported vacuum, only a port on the air side of the throttle blade(s). Most carbs I have seen have the ported vacuum hole just above the throttle blades and not in the venturi.

Cheers,

Lou

madsenl@caltech.edu

Author:  Bob D [ Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Quote:
: Bob,
:
: Just FYI, some throttle bodies do have ported
: vacuum. My Holley TBI does. Personally, I
: like the manifold vacuum anyway. You don't
: need a venturi for ported vacuum, only a
: port on the air side of the throttle
: blade(s). Most carbs I have seen have the
: ported vacuum hole just above the throttle
: blades and not in the venturi.
:
: Cheers,
:
: Lou


Thanks for clearing this up for me Lou! I now realize that there are three possibilities for vacuum advance sources: manifold, ported, which is the same as manifold except taken just above the throttle blade (no vacuum at idle), and venturi, that I don't think Chrysler ever used, but that was used by some manufactures. Have I got it right?
Bob D


BBobbias@aol.com

Author:  Jimmy [ Fri May 12, 2023 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Hey my first post here but the question is related.

Do you use the temp switch that shuts vacuum off until the engine warms up?

I have an 83 Dodge D150 /6 a904

Just realized I posted to an ancient thread.

Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Fri May 12, 2023 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

wow. Good times..

Back when Lou had a caltech email address :-)

Sorry I cannot comment on the Vacuum Switch content.


Greg

Author:  Dart270 [ Fri May 12, 2023 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Dang, this is a blast from the distant past! I have never used a vacuum-off switch during warmup, but I think it's possible your truck has something like that.

One update here is that when I use a carb these days, I always use ported vacuum for distributor vac advance. I now have 3 port EFI Slant cars, and for all of those I use direct manifold vacuum and some electronic/computerized mode for ignition advance. How the times change... For all my cars, I spend quite a bit of time optimizing the ign timing curve for the particular engine combo.

Slant on!
Lou

Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri May 12, 2023 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Quote:
Do you use the temp switch that shuts vacuum off until the engine warms up?
No. That would not provide any benefits. All it would do would be make driveability extremely poor until the vacuum would be switched on.

Author:  Jimmy [ Sun May 14, 2023 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

Thanks everyone. I'll try to check the dates next time. :oops:

Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Mon May 15, 2023 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vacuum advance in a nutshell

I wouldn't worry about dates of a post.

good information is good information no matter when it was originally posted.

have fun with your slanted projects!

Cheers!

Greg

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