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Acceptable timing variance
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24048		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  itlldo1 [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Acceptable timing variance
My '78 /6 has 140K on it. I'm redid the head last year, but I've never done anything with the timing chain. What is an allowable movement (degree wise) before the rotor begins to move before replacing the chain and gears? I've owned this since it was almost new, and has had religeous servicing / oil changes. Thanks. MBF
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
"None" is preferable. Any lag/slop in this area means a loss in performance, driveability and economy. If you detect any slop, it's time to change the chain.
Author:  itlldo1 [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
THanks. I've done these on ford and chevy v-8's-is there anything special to watch for? I'll be trying to get this done this week-taking it to a show next weekend. Mike
Author:  AnotherSix [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
With that kind of mileage a plastic top gear is on borrowed time even if there does not seem to be slop. It could fail at any time or run many more miles.
Is this in a truck? I have not checked the part number for slant truck engines but just about every other truck engine of every make gets a steel top gear, even if the chain is the same as used in the cars. That could be one reason it lasted so long.

It is not a bad job on slant. It can be awkward to get a good view of the timing marks, a mirror or straight edge is worth using. It's not like looking straight down on a v-8. It would be best to remove and reseal the pan if you can. If that is not possible in the car, a very good cleaning of the front joint area between the pan, block and timing cover is needed. Degrease with brake cleaner. I used Halomar on the fiber timing cover gasket and stuck it to the block first. I trimmed a little bit of the wedge shaped parts of the rubber timing cover-pan seal that would normally get pinched between the block and pan. I used Ultra black silicone in the joint to fill the small void left by the trimmed seal. The mopar silicone is also very good, maybe the best. Use just enough, you don't want a big silicone snot hanging into the pan. I also used two drifts, one on each side thru the timing cover bolt holes and into the holes in the block to pull the cover down into position and onto the locating pins from under the car. It really only took a couple of hours for the whole job, half of that was spent cleaning. It has not leaked at all and has about another 5000 miles on it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Degree-in the camshaft! See this thread. The best timing sets are the Rollmaster items, which are costly but can be had for an excellent price from here
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Degree-in the camshaft! See this thread. The best timing sets are the Rollmaster items, which are costly but can be had for an excellent price from here
The Rolmaster sets are good, but in my opinion, totally over kill for a stock or even a mild slant. Unneccessary expense. Just a stock type chain and gear set, with a steel cam gear.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Degree-in the camshaft! See this thread. The best timing sets are the Rollmaster items, which are costly but can be had for an excellent price from here
The Rolmaster sets are good, but in my opinion, totally over kill for a stock or even a mild slant. Unneccessary expense. Just a stock type chain and gear set, with a steel cam gear.
Charlie,you are right, a stock timing chain, as long as it has a steal gear, is a probably good enough, BUT hobbyists love to spend money on their much loved hobby things, and where is the fun in 'good enough'. :wink: If you can afford it, and you love the car, why not get the better part? With that kind of thinking I would still have a stock one bbl, 904 with rusted quarter panels. :lol:

Sam
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Why not?
Quote:
If you can afford it, and you love the car, why not get the better part?
I'd save the money using a 'good brand' stocker chain, especially so the guy can save up for his engine rebuild/ better tuneup items... Not to cut hairs, but even Doc has drilled these types of gears and stuffed a chunk of lead shot into the hole to degree the cam instead of buying a bushing kit and/or the $$$ timing set...


-D.Idiot
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:11 am ]
Post subject: 
No debate from me, that certainly works just fine, but it's tough to beat the convenience of multi-slot keyways in the crank sprocket or a bushing-ready hole in the cam sprocket.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I prefer a good stock link type chain and steel top gear to a cheap roller chain for engines that are not going to see high rpm. That said I normally use a good true roller type of set on complete rebuilds. The cheap ones don't have rollers on the chain and while they last ok they do get loose fairly quickly, the link type are more accurate for a longer time.

The best is the best, but good is good enough for a high mileage engine. I put a stock type set with steel top gear in our Swinger before the original went bad, but when I go thru the whole engine it will be getting a good roller set.
Author:  itlldo1 [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Oil Slinger??
Thanks to all the responders. I've got her apart, and the chain is definately in need of replacement. Once question I do have. There wasn't an oil slinger. This engine is in a '78 Dodge truck that I've owned for almost 27 yrs and has never been apart. Does this engine have an oil slinger? I know what these look like-either the flat washer style, or the threaded disk, but there was nothing behind the crank pulley. I'm going to to with the stock chain and steel gears, but I appreciate the input. Mike
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Not many on 70's engines...
Quote:
Does this engine have an oil slinger? I know what these look like-either the flat washer style
I have yet to see an oil slinger on a 70's engine, (seem to be on every 60's engine I've torn down...), I think the factory stopped installing them due to beancounter cut backs.

-D.Idiot
Author:  itlldo1 [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
DI-thanks. This isn't the first time you've bailed me out-probably won't be the last either. Appreciate the response-just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something as both the Chilton and Engine manual reference removing the oil slinger. Mike
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Ruh, roh...
Quote:
DI-thanks. This isn't the first time you've bailed me out-probably won't be the last either.
Holy cow, a repeat offender! :roll:
I better check with the Bail Bond office and see if I'm getting any of my money back!!!!! :wink: :wink:

Best of luck, sometime this week I have to degree my cam in too, I have stolen the oil slinger out of my '67 'oil burner'...now I have to find out where my degree wheel has 'rolled' off to... *sheesh*


Go buddy go!

-D.Idiot
Author:  itlldo1 [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Bondsman-temporarily unavailable-so how about another quest?
DI-he's on the lamb too-sorry. One more question and then I'm done. Does the pan actuall need to be dropped to reinstall the cover or can it be done as is? The reason I ask is that I was able to get the cover off w/o damaging the bottom gasket w/o loosening the pan-wanted to know if it will go back together the same way? Thanks-Mike
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