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Drums VS Discs
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24698		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Eric Von Zipper [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Drums VS Discs
This is my second post here , and I have to tell you guys. I cant believe how much time and money you spent converting your brakes.

Any of your heard of drum porting and tuning?

This is the process where your drums are drilled so that debris and water are pushed from the braking surfaces. It also evacuates the air between the drums and shoes at the same time. You will have ZERO fade.

By doing this your drums will brake just like discs, with 1/3 less weight and drag.

Stock car racers did this for years. Where every once of weight mattered.

I take discs OFF my cars and run 4 wheel drums only.

i've done this for over 40 years now, both on the track and on the street.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to the board.

Unfortunately water and dirt are dumb. They don't know they're only supposed to go out the holes in the drum, and not in. Drilling drums is not only a good way to spoil them — out of round, tendency to crack in service — it also means removing mass, which we (especially those of us with the 9" drum system) cannot afford to lose from our undersized drums. From the perspective of safety — mine and that of everyone I share the road with — ill-advised mods like this are very near the top of my "absolutely not!" list.

And even if you live in a waterless, dirt-free place where it's always so cold out that the brakes never get hot in use, drilling drums does not make them work like discs, nor does it eliminate fade. And disc brakes do not have 1/3 more weight than drums. Sorry, not in this universe! :-)

You take discs off your cars? Fantastic; there's a steady demand for the parts. If you've got disc brake parts for sale, post an ad in the "Parts For Sale" forum and make money fast!
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Wha?
How much money? For what kind of brakes? I bought an entire Duster parts car for $200. The disc brakes had been thoroughly rebuilt recently and are now on my '67 Valiant. If you're giving away A body disc brake parts there will be a line at your door.

Even stock car racers learned and switched to disc brakes. Ever read The Unfair Advantage? Mark Donohue had a big problem racing his disc brake equipped Matador stock car at Riverside because the drum brake equipped cars behind him would push him off the track as they couldn't slow their cars. Donohue had to check his mirrors and move off the preferred line to avoid the drum brake cars that couldn't stop.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
...to say nothing of the obvious fact that the whole world's entire auto industry has switched to disc brakes 'cause they're lighter, better, and cheaper. That doesn't drill any holes in any drums, but it drills a few in certain ideas! :twisted:
Author:  Eric Von Zipper [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry Dan they ARE NOT lighter, nor cheaper, nor better. Just easier to maintain.

Ive lived in the NW corner of the US for 45 years now. It does rain here.
My ole man showed me porting and tuning way back when.

Ive been doing it for years, with never a drum failure.

THERE IS A CORRECT WAY and a WRONG way to drill drums.

Racers have been doing it for years. Just like they do discs now.

Hotrod and racing mags in the 50s and 60s used to have tech articles in them. Old Skool Rods mag had a good article a few years ago.

There is a company called CH Toppings Brakes that has been doing drums for 50 years for racers and street use.

Im telling you guys there is a better way. Look into stock car history, ask some old timers.

When my Dart gets out of the bodyshop, Ill be rebuilding the entire brake system. It will have ported drums on all four.

Pictures to follow in a few months.
Author:  Eric Von Zipper [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joshie225

It took SBCs until 1961 to beat some of the speed records set by flathead Fords, and the last one was made in 53.

Just cause its new, don't make it better
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Joshie225

It took SBCs until 1961 to beat some of the speed records set by flathead Fords, and the last one was made in 53.

Just cause its new, don't make it better
So it took 6 years for a brand new engine to surpass all the arcane record held by Ford flatheads. How on Earth does this make drum brakes superior to disc brakes?

If drums are so much better and were so well developed by stock car racers how come they couldn't match the braking of a disc equipped AMC Matador?

You're in the NW corner of the US huh? Well, so am I. If you want to prove something we can match your drum brake Dart against my disc brake equipped Valiant. My stock rotors and off the shelf brake pads against your best. Since the distance to a single stop is dictated by tire grip much more than braking capacity multiple stops are required. After all, it the tires that actually stop, turn and accelerate the car.

If you have a safe place available to do this I'll even make the drive otherwise I'll see if I can get a little time at PIR at the end of one of my club's track events. We'll drive side-by-side and attempt to make the same stops. I'll bring a video camera for documentation.

The discussion part is over. If you're the troll I believe you to be you'll never accept this challenge. It's time to throw down. One test is worth a thousand opinions.

And just because you're older doesn't mean you're wiser.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drums VS Discs
Quote:

i've done this for over 40 years now, both on the track and on the street.
After 40 years of doing it wrong, isn't it time to start doing it right? :)

40 years ago this was an improvement in certain situations of racing. Either where disc brakes/larger drums were not available or not allowed by the rules. Times and technology change. Come on into the present.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Sorry Dan they ARE NOT lighter, nor cheaper, nor better.
Are too, times infinity. :roll:

We're done now.

Image
Author:  casey70dartreed [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
No offense...But this is one of the worst ideas I have heard. I respect your opinion and knowledge...But divulging this 'do-it-yourself' approach just asks for trouble. I mean speed secrets for drivetrain purposes is one thing...Messing around with our methods of stopping and possibly saving a life is another...Especially considering our tiny 9" drums.

Everything in this hobby does not revolve around the latest speed innovation or shall I say risk...Common sense should trump over this. Sure my new disc brake conversion cost me some weight and some E.T., but I would take them over those horrible drums any day of the week.

This could be the next best thing...A breakthrough even...But you know what? I don't know...Don't care. I'm going to play it safe.

And I'm not sure that their is a right way and a wrong way to drilling the drums. The shoes naturally crack as heat is applied...Which is why I naturally switched to discs in the first place.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like he is talking about drilling the outer diameter. YIKES!!!

I have seen the sides of drums and the backplates vented or drilled. 5 holes about 1" in the drum between the studs on a slightly larger circle and two larger holes in the backplate. But this is an OLD way to modify a production cars brakes for track use only. Some of the OLD factory backed vettes had this with screen over the openings. The last cars I saw it on were some of the seventies / early eighties GM F bodys that were set up for slalom racing. I never did it on my own car since I drove on the street and still have doubts that it helped at all. There is not much room between the shoes and drum surface for air flow. The thought of breaking a drum and locking the rear on Mollholland at 2 am was enough for me.

It would definitely get dirt and water in there. Better than discs? Probably not even better than the unmolested drums!
Author:  slantzilla [ Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is there a full moon out tonight???????????? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Author:  AnotherSix [ Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it just passed.
Author:  emsvitil [ Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is what he's talking about:

http://www.tffn.net/drilldrum.html

http://www.chtopping.com/CustomRod4/
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Now that I can see pictures...

...I still think it's a seriously bad idea.
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