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both red and black wires on ameter?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24741		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  both red and black wires on ameter?
I have to say, I am really confused by this one. I bypassed the ammeter on my car years ago, but just left it hooked up. But now that I am rewiring for the new dash I have taken the old dash panel out, and am marking all the wires using the manual as guide. The thing that really stunned me, and shows my total lack of deep understandings here is that one wire on the ammeter is the heavy red bus wire, and the other one is the heavy black bus which apparently ties into the ground system? How does that work? By the way, to add to the confusion the factory manual wiring diagram fails to label the ammeter. And to further add to the confusion, the entire diagram is reversed left to right as if you were looking at the dash from under the hood, including the bulkhead connector. That makes everything require mental gymnastics, as if wiring weren't complex enough.

I thought I remember reading that you could unhook those two ammeter wires and bolt them back together to bypass the ammeter, but it seems as if that would create a dead short and burn everything up, or at least fry the fusible link. I always thought the ammeter was just in series in the line from the alternator to the battery. Would someone please take the time to explain the theory behind this Mopar system, and what I should do with the big red wire left from the ammeter. And am I interpreting the diagram right? Is the big black wire a ground wire.?

By the way, once I cut the metal out of the stock dash to accept the larger new dash panel form Rocky Mountain Dashes, the wiring is nowhere near us perplexing and unaccessible. It makes much more sense when you can see it all sitting upright in the driver's seat. I had always seen it before from below, standing on my head, with no light but a "burn-you" (trouble) light.

Confused Sam
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Got a link to the RM dashes? Prices etc?
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
rockymountaindashes.com You might contact sick6 from our forum here. I think I remember him saying he has a product either in developement or already for sale. He has been overly shy about promoting himself here.

Sam
Author:  dncoles [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:17 am ]
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Let me just say that I am no expert with this. BUT since I bought my valiant I have been studying my repair manual and I mean studying it. I am in the process of bypassing my ammeter and replacing burned up wires. I know that there may be people that are going to raz me about posting this but hopefully this will help. Also, the ammeter doesn't ground like a voltmeter, it just has the power line go through it. Having one red and one black (in my mind) helps to know which one came from where. If they are both the same color then its really confusing.

Image
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the diagram, and the explanation as to why two colors are used. One thing I don't get in your diagram is the splice between the black bus and the red bus on the engine compartment side of the bulkhead connector. Can I assume that this is your mod to the stock setup? It seems that the red wire in this diagram is redundant and not needed at all. Is there a heavy black 12v wire on the engine side in the stock set up?

Sam
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: both red and black wires on ameter?
Quote:
I thought I remember reading that you could unhook those two ameter wires and bolt them back together to bypass the ammeter
You can. Dncoles is correct as to the explanation of why two wire colours are used (if you hook up the ammeter backwards, its readings will be reversed from actual fact). The factory could've/should've made a better choice of colour than black, though, which by convention is used for ground wires.

But, connecting the two ammeter wires together still leaves the bulkhead disconnects. To bypass the whole works in one go, you can just run a nice heavy wire from the alternator's B+ terminal to whichever end of the battery positive cable you choose. I usually tuck such wires under the ledge of the radiator support and connect to the top end of the battery positive cable, but this means you need to do your hookup in a corrosion proof manner and/or keep a periodic eye on it.
Quote:
I always thought the ammeter was just in series in the line from the alternator to the battery
Correct.
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I had always seen it before from below, standing on my head, with no light but a "burn-you" (trouble) light.
Do yourself an enormous favour: Go get a fluorescent trouble light. I bought mine, the kind that takes an 18" fluoro tube, for something like $25 from Sears. It works vastly better and is much safer and less troublesome than the old type of trouble light, and by swapping in a BLB ("Black Light Blue") fluoro tube, it doubles as a very effective leak detection dye light.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dan. Boy you have been in Canada too long when your wires have colour instead of color. AYE? Does that qualify you as a nationalized citzen? AYE? :wink: Thanks to DNColes as well.

I ran the direct-to-battery wire years ago, through a good fuse of course, but left the old stuff connected under the dash because I wasn't sure of what else might die without them hooked up. I can follow a wiring diagram, but do not have the fundamental electrical background to understand why things are the way they are. My understanding simply views the flow of electricity as analogous to water under pressure.

More pressure requires bigger wires. If you break the wire (pipe) the flow stops. You need to do work with the current to keep the flow low enough that you don't burn up anything, (hence no short circuits). Always fuse everything. Beyond that, I am pretty much a dunce. Thanks for any and all help you so kindly offer from time to time. I have seen a car burn up, and it is a sad sight. Good wiring is of real value.

Sam
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Boy you have been in Canada too long when your wires have colour instead of color.
Well, sure, and we're legally required to write "cheques" on our "chequing" account (if you spell it the other way, the socialists will come and kick yer bum, not yer butt! :lol: ). But the extra letters we spend on colours, we get back when we write about how the engine has to be properly "centred" on its mounts.
Quote:
I ran the direct-to-battery wire years ago, through a good fuse of course, but left the old stuff connected under the dash because I wasn't sure of what else might die without them hooked up.
Nothin', unless somebody tapped off one of those wires for an electrical accessory.
Quote:
More pressure requires bigger wires.
Oops, slight problem here. More volume (current, amps) requires bigger wires, just like if you need to move more water at a time, you need a larger pipe. High pressure (voltage, volts) does not require any particular wire size. Remember, the fat battery cable carries only 12 to 14 volts (at high current), but the 2mm-thick conductors in your spark plug leads can carry more than 20,000 volts (at low current)!
Quote:
If you break the wire(pipe) the flow stops.
And if the wire fails, it lets out the magic electric smoke, and the circuit stops working. That's the root cause of all electrical problems: Release of the magic electric smoke. ;-)
Author:  sick6 [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Got a link to the RM dashes? Prices etc?
I sent you a PM.
Quote:
You might contact sick6 from our forum here. I think I remember him saying he has a product either in developement or already for sale. He has been overly shy about promoting himself here.

Sam
I am just not sure how much "self-promotion" is allowed on the site. I'll probably stick a link in the signature of my posts soon.

for all those interested, here is a link to the topic of my custom gauge clusters:

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... ers#146185

feel free to contact me about any questions you may have, and if your particular model isn't mentioned, I might still be able to do it for you, I'll just need to take a look at it since I am limited to what housings are nearby.
Author:  dakight [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Speaking for myself as I don't presume to speak for the board; I see nothing wrong with making it known that you provide a service of benefit to our members. I'm pretty sure we don't want this to turn in to a commercial buying and selling site but if a board member offers a service or product frequently needed by other members he (or she) should certainly feel free to offer it.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:01 am ]
Post subject: 
The sample sitting in your tool box lid is how much?


I would want a place for a vacuum gauge. Eventually vac/boost gauge!
Author:  sick6 [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
that particular one would be $55 to $60, its going to depend on what plastic prices are when I get back to work on tuesday.

plastic prices follow gas prices (oil) and its the start of a new month so everyone changes their quotes.

Just shoot me a PM and I can design whatever you like!
Author:  dncoles [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with the diagram being redundant. I didn't make the diagram (I'm sure some have seen it before on another site). I just wanted you to see how its hooked up. When I decided to bypass my ammeter I saw this diagram. Me and a friend of mine saw how it would be easier and less messy just running one wire to the fuse box and one wire direct to the alternator. Just thought it would give you a visual. -Dan
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
:)
Author:  sick6 [ Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
:)
Can I take that as interested? PM me and let me know, I am about to make some for others too.
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