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Manual box turn-turn and tierod adjustments
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25856		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Manual box turn-turn and tierod adjustments
I bought a freshly rebuilt 20:1 box. I had a loose stock one in before. The new box was 5 turns lock-lock out of the car, and 5 turns lock-lock in the car. However, I get 2 turns to the left and 3 to the right.

First, isn't it supposed to be 4.5 lock-lock? Spec for the stock box is 5 3/4 turn - thats what I got when it was outside the car. Spec for this one is 4.5 but I get 5, inside or out.

Looking at the tierods - the left ones have more threads exposed outside the sleeve then the right one. Assuming I have it re-aligned and the tierods are even, that will get the left to right ratio in the middle, but won't it still be 5 turns lock-lock instead of 4.5?

I think the left-right turn difference is outside the box because the way it is now, when the wheel is centered, its at the point of least slop. Turn wheel to the left, adds slop, wheel to the right, adds slop. Unless the chuck inside is really off in its machining....

Man I wish I would of noticed that coming out of the alignment shop... this cars been aligned too many times I need to start investigating the do it yourself alignment gauges.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are you 100% certain the pitman arm was installed correctly? This same scenario/condition/installation problem happened to another person on the board recently.
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pretty sure... although the pitman arm can go on one of four ways its almost impossible to get it turned around 90 degrees. Things would get really wonky if that happened - I don't know the exacts but the travel of the output shaft / pitman arm is what, half circle? Being off by 90deg would be a big chunk....

Looking at it percentage wise, mines off by 1/4 turn, out of 5, makes for 5%? Even if you used the proper spec 1/4 of 4.5 would still be a mere 5.6%. Being off by 90deg on the pitman would net you a difference in the double digits % wise at least.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would have agreed in the past, but recent experiences posted here indicated the pitman arm on another car was installed mis-clocked and gave the same symptoms you noted.
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
I do recall the thread but something just sounds bogus with it.... I just tested my stock box (outside the car), turning the input shaft through its entire 5 3/4 rotations moved the output shaft just about 1/4 turn. Putting it on 90deg out, with the tires anywhere close to straight ahead (assuming that would even be possible) would just about eliminate rotation completely in one direction...

I believe this is the thread you were talking about. Lets examine a bit further
Quote:
I took it to the alignment shop this morning. I stopped by to check on it and they said it was finished. They told me that the pitman arm was put on wrong and there were four different ways to put it in.

Are they just claiming that was the problem so they did not have to admit to doing a poor alignment job?
Our fellow slanter had put the box in himself and then took it to the shop for alignment. He had problems with it, took it back to the shop who magically fixed it and blamed it on the pitman install. That, combined with how my old stock box output shaft turns 1/4 circle all together, makes me think the answer to the question he asked in the quote is a big fat yes. Unles I'm missing something big here I think the shop he used fed him a big bag of bull....
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd get the tie rods to equal length, and set toe-in correctly (well close).

Then drive straight ahead to center the steering.
then if steering wheel isn't straight, take it off the shaft and center.

Then finally see how many turns for each direction.
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I wonder how accurate it will come out if I turn the tierods in opposite directions equal amounts. Probably as accurate as using tape measures.
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:07 am ]
Post subject: 
It should be possible to have the steering wheel centered when in it's original keyed location. Having the steering box centered when the car is going straight is essential for using the "tight spot" in the steering box which helps tracking down the road.

If your tie rods are off, then you will not be on this tight spot and will be harder to steer and will wear the box quicker.

Lou
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:17 am ]
Post subject: 
That was my main concern, how the box wears. I've been driving it like this for a couple months... its still close to the "spot" but figured its time I look into it and here we are. Now I just need to decide if its worth getting it re-aligned.

With my luck I have a feeling I'll get it aligned then few months down the road something else will go and I'll have to start all over again.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Its very easy to do toe in/out at home with a home made tool.

I like a stick or piece of 1x2 about the same length as the track width of the car. Drive 2 nails through our stick .....they should be the same distance apart as the distance between the centre of the tires....close is fine.

Jack the car so the tires are just off the ground and the cars weight is on the suspension.

Place the stick in front of the tires and spin them so the nails make a mark all the way around the tire. You should see a little scratch all the way around both tires.

Go to the back side of the tires ......hold the stick up to the marks and note the difference. Adjust the tie rods to get the desired toe in. (I like 1/16"on the Valaint).

I have done this to get the car close before an alignment and had the shop verify that this method is very accurate.

Some cars are tough to get the stick in the behind the wheel position.
Author:  sethmcneil [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
then if steering wheel isn't straight, take it off the shaft and center.

the shaft in my car only allows the wheel to be put on in one direction. I was counting on the idea that it could be mounted any-which-way on the end of the column, but I found out the hard way, and will hafta center the wheel at the coupler...

the older versions must be different, eh?
Author:  sethmcneil [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
is this "tight spot" legit? I've never heard of this before!! perhaps I'm missing out on a nice feature!?
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, the tight spot is legit. Old boxes you probably won't feel it, even with it out of the car, but usually you can.

Best way is to put the st wheel on as the factory did, then adjust BOTH tie rods to get wheels pointing straight and with proper toe.

Nice trick, Sandy.

Lou
Author:  Bob Paulin [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Pretty sure... although the pitman arm can go on one of four ways its almost impossible to get it turned around 90 degrees. Things would get really wonky if that happened - I don't know the exacts but the travel of the output shaft / pitman arm is what, half circle? Being off by 90deg would be a big chunk....

It is, actually, quite easy to mount the Pitman arm off by 90° or 180°.

Drop the Pitman arm from the box.

Turn the wheel until the Pitman shaft turns 90°.

Re-mount the Pitman arm.

Quote:
Looking at it percentage wise, mines off by 1/4 turn, out of 5, makes for 5%? Even if you used the proper spec 1/4 of 4.5 would still be a mere 5.6%. Being off by 90deg on the pitman would net you a difference in the double digits % wise at least.

It sounds more to me that you are off 90° on the Pitman arm.

A LOT has been made up with tie-rod adjustment from what I read.


Drop the Pitman arm.

Center the steering box - lock-to-lock.

Re-mount the Pitman arm.

Re-align the car - centering the steering wheel with tie-rod adjustment.
Author:  emsvitil [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
then if steering wheel isn't straight, take it off the shaft and center.

the shaft in my car only allows the wheel to be put on in one direction. I was counting on the idea that it could be mounted any-which-way on the end of the column, but I found out the hard way, and will hafta center the wheel at the coupler...

the older versions must be different, eh?

Don't know if the older versions are different....

I've done it on other cars, so I just assumed.... (you know what that means.. :roll: )
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