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| oil consumption https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26124 |
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| Author: | mopardean [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | oil consumption |
i am brand new to slantsix.org so please forgive me if i mess something up. i have a 87 dodge .5 ton with the original sl6 with 125K miles. the engine uses a quart of oil about every 300 - 400 miles. It seeps a little around the valve cover but not enogh to drip on the ground. Compression is good at 117 - 125 pounds per all cylinder and the engine starts and runs good. Is that kind of oil consumption normal? Are there any cheap things i should try to help with this? I have another sl 6 out of a 75 duster i am big blocking that has 72K miles. I didnt have the engine in the car long enough to know about its oil consumption but it ran good. Would it be a good bet to install this? Finally a guy i know has a redone head for a sl6 for 125$. Its casting number is 4095778. Would that fit either of my engines (recognizing that one has hydralic and one has mechanical lifters)? Does 125$ seem like a decent price? Thanks for any answers. i have long admired these tough little engines. |
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| Author: | dank10fenny [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:06 pm ] |
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what thickness of oil are you using? is there any blue smoke out the pipe? going a lil thickr can help sometimes |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:13 am ] |
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Welcome on the board. Thanks for posting your question with such complete info (year, model, mileage, compression, etc.) — that helps! The rate you describe is not normal, it is definitely excessive oil consumption. While it's a good idea to use the correct weight/grade of oil, changing to a thicker grade is not the way to fix the problem. Your engine is probably leaking/burning oil; the right way to proceed is to find exactly how the oil is being consumed, and fix it. First, though, how carefully has the crankcase ventilation system (PCV valve, breather cap, hoses, grommets) been maintained? A good way to check for leaks is to clean the engine thoroughly so it's not greasy, then drive around for a little while and inspect the engine for evidence of oil leaks. This isn't foolproof, because some leaks leave little or no visible trace. One example is the oil pressure sender screwed into the rear of the oil pump: sometimes if this develops a fault, it'll drip-drip-drip at roadway speeds but you'll never see a trail or a puddle anywhere on the vehicle or on the ground underneath. For difficult-to-find leaks, ultraviolet leak detection often helps. You clean the engine, add a small bottle of UV-fluorescent dye to the engine oil, drive around awhile until the oil level drops, then play an ultraviolet light over/under/around the engine and look for the bright yellow trace of the UV dye. It really does jump out at you, where undyed oil would be invisible. There are overpriced leak detection kits containing "special" lights and mystical goggles, etc. Pfft. You can get the job done very effectively without spending a lot of money; see here. The engine may be burning oil...what do the spark plugs look like? If you're burning enough oil to make a quart disappear in 300-400 miles, the plugs should show evidence of it. If they're clean, it's a leak rather than a burn. If they're dirty or indeterminate, you may have clogged or stuck oil control rings. In a case like that, cleaning out the engine sometimes restores oil control. This needs to be done carefully; see here. |
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| Author: | Rug_Trucker [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:39 pm ] |
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Mopars have notoriously soft valve guides. |
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| Author: | dank10fenny [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:05 pm ] |
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i read your recipe dan about engine cleaning. i did the whole 1/1 atf and 10-30 on my val awhile ago, like a week later i blew a headgasket and bent pushrod, but im pretty sureit wasnt related |
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| Author: | dudley [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: oil consumption |
Quote: Are there any cheap things i should try to help with this?
http://www.mikebentley.com/oilburn.htm1. Drain engine oil and replace oil filter. You've probably been using a multi-grade 10-30 or 10-40 weight oil. Or a straight 30 weight oil. Regardless, replace that oil with one grade heavier, single-weight of oil. During warm months, use 40 weight; in the winter (depending on how far the mercury dips in your part of the country) use 20 or 30 weight. 2. Add two cans (30 ounces) of Alemite CD2 Oil Treatment which replaces one quart of the oil you would normally use during an oil change. (If capacity with new filter is less than 5 quarts, use one can of the Alemite.) 3. Drive vehicle at town-speed, 20 to 35 miles per hour, for at least 50 miles (a 100 mile distance is better), before opening it up to expressway speeds. That's all there is to it! Steps #1 and #3 are the real secret, assuring success when the "usual" additive treatment helps little if at all. Here's why, as my mechanic friend explained it to me:- The Alemite contains a substance that builds-up between ring and cylinder wall, forming a tough, long-lasting seal. Problem is, standard 30 weight (in moderate clime) and multi-grade oils are too thin; they don't have sufficient "body" to prevent most of the sealer from blowing past rings BEFORE it can do its job. A heavier, single weight oil retards the blow-by and speeds-up the seal formation. Driving at moderate speed for the first 50 miles or so, also helps accomplish fast seal build-up. Use a heavy foot on the accelerator immediately after treatment, and the fast-moving pistons pump much of the oil and sealer out the tail pipe. The sealing compound, after setting-up, isn't as hard as steel. So, to prevent seal from deteriorating, add one can of the Alemite when changing oil thereafter. CD-2 Oil Treatment (15 oz.) http://www.autobarn.net/ch4101-12.html |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: oil consumption |
Quote: replace that oil with one grade heavier, single-weight of oil. During warm months, use 40 weight; in the winter (depending on how far the mercury dips in your part of the country) use 20 or 30 weight.
This is an OK technique for wringing the last few miles out of a whipped, worn-out engine, but it is neither a fix nor a good idea on an engine in basically sound condition. The compression readings cited, and the lack of mention of any clunks or other alarming noises, tell us this engine is in basically sound condition. Running single-weight oil like this will only greatly accelerate engine wear due to slow oil transport to the critical junctions on startup.Quote: Add two cans (30 ounces) of Alemite CD2 Oil Treatment
There are two products sold as "Alemite CD2 Oil Treatment". The one you point to is just a thickener, like STP or Motor Honey. Like the use of thicker oils, it is OK for limping a worn-out engine those last few miles you need to get out of it, but it is neither a fix nor a good idea on an engine in good shape — for the same reason discussed above. And while the site you linked to makes amusing reading, that's all it does. I'm not sure where the (probably fictional) mechanic in the story got his imaginative notion of CD2 containing a substance that "builds up between rings and cylinder walls and forms a tough, long-lasting seal". That is completely and utterly without basis in fact. All the stuff does is thicken the oil.There are all kinds of band-aids to cover up an engine's oil consumption. They do not fix the problem any more than shoving a cork up the tailpipe fixes the cause of exhaust smoke. Just dumping in oil thickeners without figuring out where the oil's going and why is really a poor idea. It might mask the problem a little, but it won't solve it, and it could make things considerably worse. Quote: The sealing compound, after setting-up
CD2 does not "set up".Quote: So, to prevent seal from deteriorating, add one can of the Alemite when changing oil thereafter.
All this'll do is make the CD2 people extra-happy.(the other Alemite CD2 product is a detergent-dispersant, much like Rislone. It can be very helpful when cleaning out an engine.) |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:27 am ] |
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Quote: i read your recipe dan about engine cleaning. i did the whole 1/1 atf and 10-30 on my val awhile ago, like a week later i blew a headgasket and bent pushrod, but im pretty sureit wasnt related
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not related, too.
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| Author: | AnotherSix [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:37 am ] |
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I have often found that the valve seals are gone (in the pan) or rock hard on an engine of that age. Even with worn guides, a new set of umbrella seals can almost eliminate the problem for at least a few more years. Seals and a decent tool to do the job will total under $100.00, maybe more like $75.00. I would follow the advice to look for leaks, and then give the engine a good flush to try to free up stuck rings. Those oil thickeners don't really fix the problem and when they burn they leave heavy deposits. It is better and less expensive in the end to get things sealed up. If the engine is truly shot, then that's another story. If the oil and filters where changed at a reasonable interval, the short block should live well past 125K. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:00 am ] |
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Quote: I have often found that the valve seals are gone (in the pan) or rock hard on an engine of that age. Even with worn guides, a new set of umbrella seals can almost eliminate the problem for at least a few more years.
Good thought. A quick 'n' easy, pretty reliable visual check is to watch the tailpipe (directly or via the RH sideview mirror) when the engine is first started up after sitting awhile. If you get a puff of blue smoke, it's a good indication oil's getting past the valve stems.Quote: Seals and a decent tool to do the job will total under $100.00, maybe more like $75.00.
Or even less than that, see here.
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| Author: | mopardean [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
thanks for all the good advice. i have been busy with work and the weather here sucks so i havent had a chance to flush the engine. but it must be burning oil as the plugs are moderately oil fouled even though i dont notice it smoking at startup or driving. It also is seeping oil around the valve cover and is definitely leaking around the oil pump. Until Dan's post i never really worried about it since the driveway is always clean. I will be tackling those as time and weather permits. As for the guides and seals i wonder if it would make sense to install the fresh head i mentioned in my first post. Would that head (casting number 4095778)fit my hydralic 6 or my spare mechanical lifter engine? I have not had the truck long enough to know how well it has been maintained over most of the engine's life, but it does run smooth and quiet. thanks again. dean |
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| Author: | mopardean [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:59 am ] |
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one thing i shouldve asked Dan in my previous post: where do you get Kroil and the Berryman B12 ChemTool you mentioned in your flushing instructions? i am not familiar with these products. thanks again dean |
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| Author: | Wesola78 [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:18 am ] |
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My '78 Volare with a slant six has around 200,000 miles on it. Every few months or so, the #6 spark plug gets an oily buildup, and has to be changed. I get a discount on spark plugs (I still work part-time at O'Reilly's), so it hasn't been a big deal. In my case, I think the slant is getting worn out. It still starts right up in the mornings though. What do you guys think about Lucas Oil Stabilizer? |
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| Author: | dakight [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 am ] |
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Kroil is availalble directly from the manufacturer: http://www.kanolabs.com Berryman's B12 is avaiable at any auto parts store. |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:55 am ] |
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Wes, I wouldn't make it worse with thickeners, but use thinners like the guys have mentioned to clean out those piston rings so they will seal again. Others to try are Rislone or a cup of tranny fluid. If you have to, install new valve seals. |
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