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| Large tires, weak springs and you. https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26423 |
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Large tires, weak springs and you. |
I've just about finished up the suspension rebuild/disc brake conversion on my '65 Valiant today. Went through the alignment and everything seemed hunky dory until I backed it off the rack and heard the tire rubbing against the wheel well. I knew going in that my leaf springs were shot. I elected not to get a new set when I purchased the rest of the parts, but I didn't think they were this bad. They're almost flat across. The car is a few inches lower on the driver's side, which I believe is the cause of the rubbing. The tires are definitely on the larger side - 245/60/15 - but they are fine on the passenger side, no rubbing. There's new KYB shocks all around, all new front end etc. I'm thinking I have a few options, the most painful of all would be to get smaller tires. I'd rather not go that route because I don't think it's necessary. Nevertheless, the issue must be solved. Someone suggested I get longer shackles and raise the rear up. I'm thinking I need new springs. If I go with new springs, can anyone suggest a source for heavier-duty spring with a larger arch to clear the rear meats? I'm still retaining the old 7.25" for now. Thanks, Greg |
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| Author: | VDART [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | rear springs |
Check out my 62 valiant-- it is hard to tell from the pics-- but I added the jc whitney springs(one of the last pics) -- car would rub 235/60/14's on small bumps-- with new springs not even a scratch. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11651 Espo is highly recommended-- but I opted for the whitney's & the price was right. Lawrence |
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:34 pm ] |
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Wow, I can't believe how cheap they are. That just might be the ticket. Thanks Lawrence, I'd a never thought to look at old JC Whitney. Unless I'm not looking in the right place, Espo does not appear to have leaf springs listed on their site. They do however, have cheap stuff like U-Bolts and shackles, which I'd get. |
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| Author: | volaredon [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:19 pm ] |
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ESPO HAS them; they just have many choices and don't just want to post and confuse, call them. You are in NY and ESPO in in PA; JCW is here in IL; in my case close enuf to go p/u myself! In your case PA might be cheaper shipping! |
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:26 am ] |
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Just out of curiosity - anyone running a set of leaf springs from Firm Feel? They're VERY expensive. What advantages would a set from them have over a set from JCW or ESPO? I imagine that the JCW ones are probably less 'application specific' and likely might have a different/generic spring rate or arch. Not sure though, that's just a guess. Whatever I get will be better than the non-operational pieces that are on there now. The prices are so disparate though, I just wonder what kind of quality concerns a set from JCW might raise. Also, anyone use S/S springs on the street? They're kind of in between the JCWs and Firm Feel, around $200 depending on the vendor. |
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| Author: | volaredon [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Try this on for size; I was pissed when I got my price from ESPO. It wasn't thru any fault of theirs though. You see, I had just gotten my used (rebuilt) springs back from the local spring shop. I had taken 2 complete sets of springs in there for my Volare and told them to use the best of the bunch and I needed 1 good set back from them, out of the 2. I also told them that I didn't care whether they worked strictly off of 1 set and not touch the other set and used their stock to add a leaf to whichever set they built me up, or whether they robbed the mains out of my 2nd set and cut it down to make the added leaf, and they could scrap whatever was left over. Well they did take both sets apart and cut the mains down to put the added leaf in the other set, rearched them (I asked for ~1 to 1-1/2" more arch than stock.) I came to pay the bill which was in the $160-something range. I was pissed that this high price didnt include new bushings, but they wouldn't budge, and claimed NOT to have a source for new bushings, and even made a stupid crack about how much more they would have to charge me for a complete new set of leafs, that I was getting off 'cheap'. So I called ESPO for my bushings (another $55) and for curiosity I asked how much a complete set for my Volare with 1 extra leaf than stock, arched the same as I requested from the local guy, and they quoted me $150 complete including bushings!!! And that's the less likely to break round front eyelets as opposed to the stock oval eyes. They also talked me out of poly fronts, because of the age of my springs, and that the poly would be "harder" on them and beat them up more, making it more likely to break the front eyes on my 20-some year old originals. So add up $160-some +55 makes $225 in a set of rebuilt springs when I could have had brand new built up exactly as I wanted, new rubber and all, for $75 CHEAPER than rebuilding the old ones! but as I had already put out the cash it was too late to do anything about it. So call 'em and give em a try. They advertise in most, if not all, of the Mopar magazines. |
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Don, sounds like you got the shaft with your spring shop. Unfortunately, my original springs are so worn that I wouldn't even consider rebuilding them. ESPO sounds like a good deal but they're off until after the holidays. I will be calling them on Wednesday for sure. Just another week of my car sitting and waiting for parts to arrive. 
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:45 am ] |
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Quote: a set from JCW or ESPO?
Difference is that ESPO know what they're talking about, and if they make a mistake they own up to it. JC Witless, you're on your own. You'd do better cutting JCW out of the loop and going directly to their supplier in MI, see this post.
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Looked through the archives, there's a lot of posts about springs. Seems like many people have had a similar experience of raising the rear up, which is what I need. That's encouraging. The S/S springs may actually be what I'm after, since I can also retain them with an 8 3/4 if and when I decide to upgrade. I don't care much about a stiff ride. Would be better than the horrible ride I had before all the upgrades. I guess it's part of a 'performance' build to sacrifice a little ride quality. I'm used to it in fact, since my suspension has been so worn out and unresponsive. On the other hand, many people have had success with both the JCW 5 leafs AND the ESPO-sourced units. In reading some of the older posts, I see a lot of people flip the front hangers for various reasons. This would seem counter productive since springs have characteristics built into them. Mounting them a different way would seem to reduce their effectiveness. Why not just get the springs you're after with the desired ride height/characteristics and mount them correctly? Lot's of stuff to mull over, even with a 'simple' part like a leaf spring. |
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:54 pm ] |
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At my work we have a rep. come around once a week from a regional spring & brake company to talk to the truck (semis) mechanics about brakes, suspensions and such. One day we all on lunch and the rep. came up to the lunch room. I asked if he could get passenger car spirngs. He said he could order them or build them. We started talking about my Dart Sport and what I wanted. I told him to get me the XHDs if he could. I told him that I wanted them to make my car handle better, prevent axle wrap, and not be very inexpensive...  About three weeks later I happen to see him again and he told me the springs would be $190.00 for the pair (they deliver them to our shop). It was about $25.00 more than the eBay leaf springs, but they would have charged me a little bit more for all the add-ons because I got the springs somewhere else. It was also cheaper to my door than off the shelf S/S springs and I figured didn't need to use the longer front spring hangers. He said their only listing was for a slant six Valiant. This worried me a littlle, but he reassured that with the extra leaf plus the extra half leaf it would be plenty. I also had them lower each side 1-inch because he said thats about how much the extra leaf and half leaf will add to the hieght of the vehicle. He said he could do the entire package for $325.00 to my door... It took him quite a while (I told him no rush, do them correctly), but when I saw them there were AWESOME! Mopar front bushings, quality pads between every spring, quality hardware was used, and great build quality. Much to my surprise they were 5-leaf springs so I ended up with 6 1/2 leafs on each side. They bolted right in and the car sits perfect.  
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
  Before rolling into the shop:  After rolling out of the shop: 
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is the car with Rallyes on the front and 15 x10" Weld ProStar forged aluminum wheels wrapped in 295/50R-15-inch tires. The wheels have 4.5" backspacing and the springs are in their factory locations. The tires are about 26.5" tall.   
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can't wait to get this on the road!!!!   Sorry for the temporary highjacking.... 
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| Author: | rmchrgr [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dan, looks great but a little out of my price range. Plus, I need to get this thing done soon so I think an off-the-shelf set is the way to go for me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the car looks much lower than the first photo which actually looks kind of jacked-up in the rear. I actually need to raise my rear end up to get clearance. My springs are sagging which is what causes the rubbing issue. Also, my Valiant has smaller and lower wheel openings than your Dart Sport. The tire rubs the area above the lip where the opening begins to flare out from the quarter panel. Your wheel openings clear the whole tire, mine tuck up inside. |
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| Author: | Romeo Furio [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | springs |
I don't know if this is true with anyone but me, BUT when I put MP/Factory S/S springs on my 67 Dart it raised the back of the car 5 1/2 " which was way too high for me. Looked like a stink bug.......... |
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