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| Rust in cowl and rear windshield gasket for 64 Valiant https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26615 |
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| Author: | 64 slantsix [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Rust in cowl and rear windshield gasket for 64 Valiant |
I have my 64 Valiant torn apart. Front and back glass out, seats and carpet out. I've got the new headliner in and have installed some retractable three point seat belts. I felt like l was ready to put the glass back in, but thought maybe I should check a few things out before I did so. I ran some water throught the fresh air intake above the hood to make sure there where no leaks there. Years ago I had to repair a leak on the drivers side fresh air intake and I felt like I might have some more problems. Sure enough, now the passenger side has developed leaks. I was surprised because I found no evidence of leaks when I removed the carpet, there was no staining or rust on the floor panel. I stuck my hand up the fresh air intake into the cowl (I think this is the right term for this area) and discovered packed in organic material around the intake and a hole big enough to put my finger through. Upon closer investigation I found several visible seeping leaks in the bottom of the cowl. These are spots that are about to rust through. Does anybody have suggestions about how to make repairs in this area? It appears to be impossible to get to except through the fresh air intakes. Also, could rust out in this area impact the structural integrity? A note on some previous posts I made about the rear windshield gasket for the 64-65 Valiants. Steele Rubber Products have informed me that they are going to manufacture this rubber gasket. However, they have no time frame established as yet. I was able to salvage my existing rear rubber gasket when I removed the glass. Surprisingly the gasket looks pretty good after I cleaned it up. I am going to try and re-use it instead of buying some of the multi piece gaskets out there on the market. In discussions with a rep at Steele Rubber Products he mentioned that ma Mopar used some really good rubber in these gaskets and that old gaskets they receive are often in good shape. |
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| Author: | 64 Convert [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I had the same condition in my Valiant convertible. I repaired the bottom of the cowl with fiberglass and it's been good for 5 years, though I seldom drive in the rain. I have a few pinholes in the upper part of the cowl, but I just filled them with body sealer before I painted. Before doing these repairs, I applied rust neutralizer all over inside the cowl, and yes, access is difficult. I've found the windshield rubber to hold up very well, and have never had to buy replacements. I clean them with lacquer thinner and a stiff-bristle brush, and they come out looking like new. |
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| Author: | polara pat [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I feel your pain. This is a real weak design with the molded cowl so it is difficult to flush out debris as it accumulates. The worst ones I've seen are with the '64 B-bodies where you can actually push your fist through the cowl from the inside. The fiberglass method may work for a while but ultimately you probably want to try and gut some under-dash to access the damage, cut it away and weld in some new metal. The down side is that I don't know how you would seam seal the top side of the weld leaving it vulnerable to the same problem. The other thing that sucks is that you just got your beautiful new headliner in and now there's talk of sparks flying in the cab, damn. |
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| Author: | Davids63Dart [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I did a serious cheap @$$ reopair on mine. Both sides were rotted away on the part that keeps water out (cylinder shape). On the driver's side, I took the air vent assembly out, and made a piece of metal that would fit into the cowl area, and sit firmly on to of the air vent, and siliconed the cr@p out of it. Then I stuck it back up where it goes, and siliconed it some more. It seems to work. I have no more leaks there. The passenger side I did basically the same thing, except I didn't pull the heater box out, I just patched it through the air vent. I also added drain holes to the cowl, in the engine compartment ares, so that the water would drain out there. It is definitly no the best way to do it, but it worked. |
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| Author: | 64 slantsix [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel better about going forward with some repairs. I actually did the exact same repair on the drivers side that you describe Davids63Dart. However, this time because I am seeing weeping pinholes, I am going to have to get more elaborate with the repairs. I am going to try your method 64 Convert. If I luck up and get 5 years out of the repair I will be pleased. I think ultimately the best way to fix it is as you describe polara pat. I think I would cut out most of the center bottom of the cowl and build a new sheet metal box that fits in under the intake with a well in the bottom and a drain line similar to a condensate drain. Then maybe attach some ductwork to the sides of the box to get air back to the original fresh air outlets. This elimates any water running through the old cowl. I am asuming there is enough room to do this, it is pretty crowded up under there. I agree that the molded cowl desgn is weak. However, if Mopar had just attached a fine screen hardware cloth beneath the intake, it would have prevented large pieces of gunk from getting into the cowl. An extra dollar per car was way to much for the bean counters. |
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| Author: | 64 slantsix [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel better about going forward with some repairs. I actually did the exact same repair on the drivers side that you describe Davids63Dart. However, this time because I am seeing weeping pinholes, I am going to have to get more elaborate with the repairs. I am going to try your method 64 Convert. If I luck up and get 5 years out of the repair I will be pleased. I think ultimately the best way to fix it is as you describe polara pat. I think I would cut out most of the center bottom of the cowl and build a new sheet metal box that fits in under the intake with a well in the bottom and a drain line similar to a condensate drain. Then maybe attach some ductwork to the sides of the box to get air back to the original fresh air outlets. This elimates any water running through the old cowl. I am asuming there is enough room to do this, it is pretty crowded up under there. I agree that the molded cowl desgn is weak. However, if Mopar had just attached a fine screen hardware cloth beneath the intake, it would have prevented large pieces of gunk from getting into the cowl. An extra dollar per car was way to much for the bean counters. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Seat Belt attachment |
Where do you attach the upper mount for 3-point seatbelts on a 64? I couldn't determine an obvious place for the top because a 64 wasn't designed with 3-points in mind. |
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| Author: | Davids63Dart [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Seat Belt attachment |
Quote: Where do you attach the upper mount for 3-point seatbelts on a 64?
On my 63 Dart 2 door post, I welded a bolt to the roof support, and mounted the seat belt that way.I couldn't determine an obvious place for the top because a 64 wasn't designed with 3-points in mind. 
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| Author: | Davids63Dart [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Back to the original question. This came to mind: What if you didn't care about the air vents? What if you got some of that spray on expanding foam, like they use for insulation and stuff, and filled the whole cowl area with that? Sure you wouldn't have any air vents anymore, but water wouldn't get in either. Not sure what you would do about the cowl grill, but something could probably be worked out. Again, just an idea. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would think the expanding foam would absorb water and make matters worse............... |
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| Author: | polara pat [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: I would think the expanding foam would absorb water and make matters worse...............
Dito
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| Author: | Davids63Dart [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
yeah, probably. |
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| Author: | VDART [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Have you checked into POR 15 or Eastwoods rust encapsulator? These products are made for just the items your describing-- small pitted metal. I have used the por 15 in the floor of my valiant for at least 3years & it is still holding great. Look them up-- they would work much bettter than the expanding foam-- & would really fill the glass channel nicely, Lawrence |
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| Author: | 64 slantsix [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think sealing off the fresh air system is an option. It seems like the only way to do it properly would be to cut a hole in the bottom of the cowl and and attach something to the bottom of the intake from below. If I went this far with repair I would go ahead and try to add a new duct to the intake. I noticed that when the heater knob is pulled out a door opens to the fresh air outlet box. It appears that the heater is pulling cold air for its source. It would probably be better in today's world of sitting in traffic to have a recirculating feature. I have been contemplating adding air conditioning. I'm thinking that putting in a whole new heat/cool system is the way to go. Then I would do something about the problems with the cowl intake. If anybody out there has any equipment recomendations, I would like to hear from them. The three point retractable seat belt installation on my 4 door Valiant was simple. I ordered a seatbelt kit, I think the brand was Juliana. The kit had several plates included with nuts attached. I cut the plate down to about 1" X 3", drilled a small hole in the top of the plate, tied a string to the plate, and dropped it down inside the door pillar from above. Of course the headliner needs to be removed and it takes some finagling to get the plate inserted and turned right before it will drop down inside the pillar. It was a little tricky getting the bolt started into the nut on the plate. Check and make sure that the bolt threads easily into the nut before you drop it down into the pillar. This attachment looks like a factory attachment, very clean. I am going to have to weld a plate in for the retractor on the floor. I used the original seatbelt attachment point, but the seat bumps the retractor when I adjust the seat all the way back. It was pricey, the kit ran around $200 for two belts and the attachment kit, but I am much happier without the old lap belts. With my new belts, I might actually survive somebody pulling out in front of me. Then I might go to the funeral for the poor smuck that pulled out in front of my all steel Valiant. |
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| Author: | 64 Convert [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Here's how I put A/C in my Valiant: http://www.slantsix.org/articles/vintag ... ge_Air.htm |
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