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| New guy has /6 build questions https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27265 |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New guy has /6 build questions |
Hello- I am new on this forum, but am a regular on the sweptline.org forum. I'm collecting parts for a 225 /6 build, but am in college, so the collection is slow. The engine will be in my '64 D100. Here's what I have so far, as well as the plans for the rest of the build: engine is a RGFC (high deck cast iron, forged crank). I have 340 high performance springs; they are "dual" springs with the inner dampner. My new valves should get here soon, the are 1.70" intake, 1.44" exhaust. The head has already been milled .100" and is mildly ported, but that mild will soon turn to wild! I'm planning on using one of the cams listed below. I'll have ARP rod bolts and main studs. Also, I have not decided upon the intake/carb set yet. I have the Super Six intake and carb on right now, but would like to put an Edelbrock 500 and Clifford's Ram 4 bbl manifold on. What header(s) have you guys found to be the best one (that fits my truck)? Which of these cams would yield a higher hp and torque level: a 268 duration, .447" lift (Clifford) or a 264 duration, .448" lift (Isky) cam? How big would the power difference be between these two cams? Trying to decide between a $220 Clifford cam or a $155 Isky cam. I think the guy at Clifford, however nice and knowledgeable and nice he may be, is a little on the bias side about when I ask him questions about his parts vs. other brand parts (cam, headers, etc.) Another question for you high performance guys: Suppose I had either one of the above cams in my slant six, what differences would there be running an Edelbrock 500 and a Super Six intake? I think the Eddy 500 is about the right (or so I have read) for my build and I was wondering what effects would come if I were to stick with the 2 bbl. Would this completely starve the engine and make it run like crap? Would I just have less power and slightly better mpg? Any help would be appreciated as I would like to stick with the carb and intake I have right now, but still build the rest of the motor the same and later on when I get the $150-250 for the carb and $300 for the manifold, I can just put them on. Also, what do you guys think about roller lifters (not roller rockers), windage trays, and crank scrapers? Are they worh it on a non drag race motor? Thanks in advance, Stephan |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New guy has /6 build questions |
Quote: I think the guy at Clifford, however nice and knowledgeable and nice he may be, is a little on the bias side about when I ask him questions about his parts vs. other brand parts (cam, headers, etc.) Stephan Larry (CP) once told me a circle track guy could be losing a race by 2 laps and with their stuff come back to win it by 2 laps. Oh and this was a ten lap race. 
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm a college student too, but I'm a tad bit more familar with engines especially my slant. Clifford was a nice guy to talk to and had some good facts going down. So I placed an order for there cam, three weeks later I drove up to Oregon Cam had one reground for $80 and canceled my order from Clifford. That being said if you truly want your clifford intake order now so you can have it by race season (get my drift?). I would take an Offy (or Clifford) over the super six for your setup. I ran about what what you've done for my slant build and was very satisfied. However, 500cfm is a lot of fuel for a six cylinder I would attempt to locate a 450cfm if you have the time, than if you don't find one you can grab a 500 from a lot of places. The cam's you metioned sound good either way. I personally have always felt more power come from lift than duration (to a point of course), however, I drive stick so you might need to take your stall in to account if you roll that way. So my descion is the Isky for the specs nothing to do with manufacture. If you have a core, I would attempt to locate a cam grinder cause you can get better specs (Doc's Erson, or mine) for even cheaper yet! Porting to match your gasket and polishing the hell out of the exhaust is going to help your engine a lot. I've seen a lot of guys put a lot of money into there engine and step this step to get mediocre results. Only port (cut) your intake about 1/2in into the port and enough to match it to your gasket. This all should be enough for even the modest contendors. Roller lifters I have no expirence with. Everything I've learned and read is stick with whatever lifters are suppose to go with your cam, improvising can ruin results in this area. Windage trays and crank scrapers are great, probably not necessary in combo. One last thing is balancing and blueprinting your rotating assembly. Internal balancing even your rods and pistons help tremendously, you can even shot peen your crank and rods for minimal cost. The only reason I metion this last bit is it has been on my mind lately and something I wished I put more money into than headers or MSD stuff. Good luck! PM for ideas if needed! |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Would running a .464" lift 280 duration cam be too much for this set up assuming I had a 450-500 cfm carb? It's in a '64 D100 manual trans. |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Not necessarily to much for the carb, maybe to much for the rig. A beginner's guide to street cams is 260-270 duration and .44-.48 lift. It will be awesome, and yes the 500cfm will work with any cams listed in this post, but for a daily driver might be a little much. It's easier to get power from a tuned smaller carb than a monster guzzler. |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm not worried about the "beginner" part of it. I've rebuild a few engines before, just never a hi-po job before. Would the cam mentioned above be too much for street driving? How would it compare in low end torque to a .448" lift, 264 duration cam? |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:25 pm ] |
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You should be more than adequate to build this engine as it should be between hi-pro and rebuild, got full faith in ya bro. I've built a couple hi-pro engines mostly 400hp 302 and one 340. The cam you listed right above this one should be very adaequate. I run 270/.44 lift and it idles fine and no loss in torque. I have no dyno to back this up, but you get the drift. Between these two cams your hitting the benchmark for a perfect street cam in my humble opinion. The next torque bringer will be to open the ports but don't get carried away as torque is determined from a smaller cross sectional area. Have you picked an intake/carb combo yet? I think you got the cam licked, also what tranny/rear are you running? For a truck like this I would make sure to have some good gears and a strong axle. |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ok, here's a question: What the biggest cam I can run (on the street) assuming I have a 450-500 cfm carb without a major loss in torque? I'd like something with at least a little "lope" to it, but I also know that as you get into big cams like that, low end torque starts to suffer. Thanks for all the help so far-you guys have been great! |
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| Author: | Doc [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What type of fuel do you want to run? Pump 86 - 87 or pump 91-92? To get a "bigger" cam to work, you need more static compression, to run more compression you need good fuel. DD |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'll be using 91-92 pump gas. I already have the head milled .100" and may have to get the block decked to true it up, so it may possibly higher. The Direct Connection Slant Six Racing manual says milling .090" off the head bring CR from 8:1-9.5:1, so I would guess that without decking the head and usig stock height pistons, I'm somewhere around 9.5:1 or a little higher. |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:45 pm ] |
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To cut to the chase and get back to homework this is a simple quick opinion. I did basically what your talking about doing down to milling and 340 springs. I run fuel injection with HEI but assuming I were to use a holley 500cfm whatever. I run .44 lift at 270 duration Knowing what I know now, I would've told my cam grinder to run .48 lift at 270 duration and little overlap. However, I had no choice in overlap cause he had a couple cams already cut on the shelf that he gave me for a steal. So the final question would be overlap, but I know that a medium overlap will keep performance and torque high. A small overlap will increase hp and a large overlap I would need to refer back to manual. |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote:
I would take an Offy (or Clifford) over the super six for your setup. I ran about what what you've done for my slant build and was very satisfied. However, 500cfm is a lot of fuel for a six cylinder I would attempt to locate a 450cfm if you have the time, than if you don't find one you can grab a 500 from a lot of places.
I have a almost new Holley 470 Truck Advenger 4 barrel with vac secondaries for sale. I'd have to call Holley to find out the real CFM of that carb, but I would say it likely less than 470. My 570 street Advenger is a 510CFM, so the 470 might flow less. Maybe just what you need. Its about 1 year old and has maybe a 1000 miles on it. $200+ shiphttp://tinyurl.com/2wg98v Pic of carb on new engine. |
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| Author: | ceej [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Check out the Erson Cam info. There are a lot of options there, and you can mix and match if you want to run available profiles. Theres a good price in the group buy too! Your driving a pickup. How much bottom end do you want to keep? Did you CC the head? What transmission and rear ratio do you have? Sounds like a fun project!  CJ |
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| Author: | pinkiedog64 [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the info. I'm driving with a 3 on the tree (1:1 3rd gear) (soon to be switched for a 4 speed on the floor, but 4th will still be 1:1) and a 3.9:1 rear (soon to be changed to a 3.55:1). I'd like to keep at least some bottom end in order to have some pull power, but would also like some good get up and go power (or at least on the relative scale!) I guess I'm asking for the best of both worlds and I don't know if getting that is possible. Any suggestions for a cam that would give me both, plus at little lope in the idle? Here's the tentative rest of the build: head milled .100", big valves, port job, 450-500 cfm 4bbl and headers. The missing piece is the cam and I'd like all the help I can get in picking one out. |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_ ... ology.html I think we've covered this a couple times now. You want torque get your Isky, it's got smaller duration with great lift. Put your engine together and love it. Torque is what's going to accelerate anything powered by a slant, you can improve top end slightly but it's a mute point when all the cams listed above are practically the same. You will most likely not even notcie the difference between Clifford and Isky cam, there both fine and very close specs you know why? Cause they both work and people have been satisfied with them. Wes out. |
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