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Running the Slant on Hydrogen?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27309		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ValiantOne [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Running the Slant on Hydrogen?
I've been doing some fun reading online about guys who installed HHO generators in their cars to experiment with running on hydrogen.

Seems like you have to have a method of leaning out the gasoline feed when the hho generator is running. Guess that leaves us carburetor guys out.

But I was wondering if anyone here has experimented with, or knows of an experiment with a fuel injected / hho slant engine.

How cool would that be?

Chris
Author:  Evilsizer [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
i think it would be more interesting to see somone convert one to use E85 or higher.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hydrogen is not a good motor fuel, and it takes significantly more energy to generate it than you get out of it.
Author:  Evilsizer [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:02 pm ]
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yea so true dan, same thing with ethanol. the bonus about hydrogen is that you can a station up any where in the world to make it. simply by using solar panels or wind generators for the process of making hydrogen. its free/renewable power with wind and solar vs crops with ethanol or oil with gasoline. there was on invention nation on discovery channel where one guy is using alge to make oil/gas/biofuel. to power the buss the guys drive. while he didnt give them much maybe a once or 2. it does look promiseing, they are still in the stages of finding the right type of alge to maxmize the amount of fuel they get from it.

the other week i wondered about making the /6 run on natural gas/propane. would be cool to be one or one of few running natural gase/propane. would be a better choice then current gas, since it burns cleaner.
Author:  ValiantOne [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know all the reasons it "isn't a good fuel" and it "isn't efficient" to make etc.

I'm still curious if anyone knows of a /6 - hydrogen project.


C
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:59 am ]
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An onboard generator driven by the car's electrical system is pretty pointless - even if your generator is 100% efficient and your slant six has a 33% efficiency (both rather optimistic, to say the least), you'll still be throwing away 2/3 of the energy you're pouring into the hydrogen generator.

If you want to generate the hydrogen separately, it's doable, but a lot of work. You'd set it up in a very similar way to a propane delivery system, with the hydrogen stored in a gas cylinder.
Author:  ValiantOne [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
good reading:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Chapter10.pdf

excerpt about slant six!

Bob Boyce’s Experiences:
Bob had an electronics business down in south Florida where he owned and sponsored a small boat-race
team through his business, starting in 1988. He had a machine shop behind his business, where he did
engine work. He worked on engines for other racers and a local minisub research outfit which was building
surface-running drone type boats for the DEA. He delved into hydrogen research and started building small
electrolysers using distilled water mixed with an electrolyte. He then resonated the plates to improve the
efficiency of the units. He discovered that with the right frequencies, He was able to generate ‘monatomic’
Hydrogen and Oxygen rather than the more common ‘diatomic’ versions of these gasses. When the
‘monatomic’ gasses are burnt, they produce about four times the energy output produced by burning the
more common diatomic version of these gasses.
About 4% of diatomic Hydrogen in air is needed to produce the same power as petrol, while slightly less than
1% of monatomic Hydrogen in air is needed for the same power. The only drawback is that when stored at
pressure, monatomic hydrogen reverts to its more common diatomic form. To avoid this, the gas must be
produced on-demand and used right away. Bob used modified Liquid Petroleum carburettors on the boat
engines to let them run directly on the gas produced by his electrolysers. Bob also converted an old
Chrysler car with a slant six-cylinder engine to run on the hydrogen set-up and tested it in his workshop. He
replaced the factory ignition with a high energy dual coil system and added an optical pickup to the
crankshaft at the oil pump drive tang to allow external ignition timing adjustment. He used Bosch Platinum
series spark plugs.
Author:  Evilsizer [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
that sounds promising... i wonder if he would share how he did it... i wonder if its a all stock /6 motor internals, ie stock 8.4:1 compression..
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
That still has the same thermodynamic problems - you can't get more energy by burning the hydrogen than you used to make it. Plus, I'd be very surprised if you could build a fuel system that could deliver monoatomic hydrogen through a two foot fuel line without it reacting and turning into diatomic hydrogen - or worse, turning your fuel line into iron hydride!
Author:  sandy in BC [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
added an optical pickup to the
crankshaft at the oil pump drive tang
......now what the heck does that mean?
Author:  ValiantOne [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
That still has the same thermodynamic problems - you can't get more energy by burning the hydrogen than you used to make it. Plus, I'd be very surprised if you could build a fuel system that could deliver monoatomic hydrogen through a two foot fuel line without it reacting and turning into diatomic hydrogen - or worse, turning your fuel line into iron hydride!
Plastic or rubber fuel line?
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Plastic or rubber fuel line?
Monatomic hydrogen would have some really weird effects on plastic. Depending on just what the plastic was, you might get it reacting with the plastic to form quite a witch's brew. Some of the things might burn in your engine (benzene, various alchohols, methane, etc) and some wouldn't (hydrochloric acid, for example). It would definitely not be good for the plastic, that's for sure. You'd need ceramic fuel lines.

I took a closer look at the electrolyzer plans, and if somebody managed to tune one to produce both monatomic hydrogen and monatomic oxygen, I wouldn't want to be there when it happens. These don't just release more energy when they burn. They react with all sorts of things (including themselves). And those electrolyzers run the hydrogen and oxygen through a single line. Such a mixture can stay together - but is rather risky - with diatomic hydrogen and oxygen because they need to break the bonds holding the diatomic molecules together before they react with each other. With monatomic gases, there's no molecules to break - and so there's practically no activation energy. Monatomic hydrogen and monatomic oxygen would ignite on contact with each other at room temperature.

BTW, there's an interesting link on hydrogen generators at Tony's Guide to Fuel Saving.
Author:  KBB_of_TMC [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm wondering how you know easily monitor whether H or O gas is monoatomic or diatomic? It would seem to be very difficult to measure bulk properties like density dynamically, and I would have expect recombination rates to be enourmous on most surfaces.
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:46 am ]
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Wow, this stuff is REALLY messed up. Monatomic H and O are unstable and will immediately combine under normal conditions to form H2 and O2, or most likely H2O if they are in the same tank (spontaneous).

"Burning" monatomic H will happen as soon as it gets anywhere near O2.

This is just plain hooey.

Lou
Author:  dakight [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I couldn't have said it better!
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