Slant Six Forum :: Upper anchor point for 3-pt seat belts

I am curious about the strength of the B pillar on my early A. Its definitely a thin place to mount that plate. what do you guys think?

The 4-pt belts look very safe. Unfortunately, if they are not retractable, I'm afraid I may not always buckle them. That is why I put the retractable 3-pt in my Dart. I would neglect to fasten the shoulder belt to the seat belt at times with the stock belts because I could not bend forward if I needed to for what ever reason.

This is a picture of where I would like to mount the top anchor point. Obviously I don't have the option of a b-pillar in the 67 Barracuda. But, it looks like I could use the same bracket here that the Wesco site uses for the b-pillar.

You need a drop loop, like this one from the board's own Rayman440.

In both Subby and the Valaint you either do up the harnesses or you sit on them......everyone does them up.

shoulder harness is so easy to slack or tighten I just loosen one side to reach for something

JB weld and seatbelt?........no

Author:	RDJ [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:02 am ]
Post subject:	Upper anchor point for 3-pt seat belts
Has anybody tried to weld an upper anchor spot to install 3-pt seat belts in an older a-body? If so, did you weld an "L" bracket and use a nut/bolt or did you weld in a threaded point for the factory type anchor bolt. I installed modern retractable 3-pt seat belts in my 73 Swinger, but with an upper anchor point already present, it was easy. I like keeping my face off of the steering wheel. If anybody has any advice or critisisms, I would appreciate it.

Author:	slantvaliant [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:44 am ]
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I installed a reinforcement plate made for this purpose. See THESE INSTRUCTIONS. No welding is required, but you do have to gain access to the inside of the B pillar by cutting a 1-1/2" or so hole. The plates and seatbelts are available from WESCO, ANDOVER, and others.

Author:	65Dodge100 [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:49 pm ]
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Here is another link. Itâ€™s about the same instructions except showing how to cut the hole in a hidden or less noticeable location. Danny

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:28 pm ]
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I'd definitely install the Wesco 4-point belts Sandy and others have had good success with, rather than try to retrofit 3-point belts. Cleaner, easier, safer...

Author:	NewLancerMan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:45 pm ]
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I am curious about the strength of the B pillar on my early A. Its definitely a thin place to mount that plate. what do you guys think? MJ

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Author:	SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:53 pm ]
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Quote: I am curious about the strength of the B pillar on my early A. Its definitely a thin place to mount that plate. what do you guys think? This is exactly why I will not add a 3-point upper anchor to my own '62. It's been done (many times, in Australia, where shoulder belts have been mandatory even in old cars for many years) but given the thin "flying" B-pillar on the '60-'62 A-bodies, I just can't see such an anchor being useful for more than noncritical low-speed impacts. In a real life-or-death high-speed hit, either the anchor would yank through or the B-pillar would yank free. When(?) I start driving my '62 regularly again, it's getting a set of those 4-point Wescos.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:26 pm ]
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I have the Wescos in my Valaint and my 73 Suburban. I put them in the Valaint because I could not figger a way to do 3 point belts. I liked the Wescos so much I put 4 of them in my Sub (2 front 2 rear) They are much easier to work than you would think. They remind my kids(all adults now) of the harnesses on their car seats when they were little. The Wesco belts adjust much easier than some RCI 4 points I got from Summit. Thre only hitch with the Wesco 4 points was when my son was pulled over in a seatbelt check and the Mountie was going to give him a ticket for Ã¯llegal belts"....my son said he would kill him in court.....dude let him off with a verbal warning. I called the next day and had a chat with the detachment head.......I suggested any new 4 point belt properly installed was better than the 40 year old lap belts...he agreed.

Author:	RDJ [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:
The 4-pt belts look very safe. Unfortunately, if they are not retractable, I'm afraid I may not always buckle them. That is why I put the retractable 3-pt in my Dart. I would neglect to fasten the shoulder belt to the seat belt at times with the stock belts because I could not bend forward if I needed to for what ever reason. However, I hate having my beautiful face vulnerable to a mouthful of steering wheel/dash . This is a picture of where I would like to mount the top anchor point. Obviously I don't have the option of a b-pillar in the 67 Barracuda. But, it looks like I could use the same bracket here that the Wesco site uses for the b-pillar. If one of those brackets were welded here, do you think it would be strong enough? Or maybe use some JB weld behind the bracket and then weld it around the edges? No sense in using an unsafe seat belt. I may go with the 4-pt if I have no other choice, because safety is important to me, but I would like to keep my options open.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:59 pm ]
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Quote: The 4-pt belts look very safe. Unfortunately, if they are not retractable, I'm afraid I may not always buckle them. That is why I put the retractable 3-pt in my Dart. I would neglect to fasten the shoulder belt to the seat belt at times with the stock belts because I could not bend forward if I needed to for what ever reason. H'mmm. Interesting question, retractability. Sandy, how do you handle reaching over to adjust the radio or open the glovebox? I imagine these belts could be made retractable by means of a retractor on the central belt (down on the floor), but it'd require a configuration not presently available from Wesco. It could be done, I'm sure...how likely it is to get done is another question. Quote: This is a picture of where I would like to mount the top anchor point. Obviously I don't have the option of a b-pillar in the 67 Barracuda. But, it looks like I could use the same bracket here that the Wesco site uses for the b-pillar. You need a drop loop, like this one from the board's own Rayman440.

Author:	RDJ [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:05 pm ]
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Quote: You need a drop loop, like this one from the board's own Rayman440. Yes, On the dart I ordered the van seat belts that have 7/8 inch drop (except it is stiff instead of floppy), but I would still have to install an anchor point.

Author:	Davids63Dart [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:21 pm ]
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I welded a bolt to the roof support for the shoulder belt. then I bolted the seatbelt to it.

Author:	slantvaliant [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:29 pm ]
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Three or four points are better than two, IF they are mounted well. And three-point systems look close enough to standard when retrofitted to not attract official or officious attention. Placing the shoulder belt mounts too low or too high can cause problems in a wreck. Too low, and there is more bending force on the spine - really bad. Don't count on the seat holding its shape and the belts' positions. Too high, and they don't restrain as well. Using the reinforcement plate inside the B pillar, done carefully, works as well as anything for the shoulder belt mount. It mimics the floor mounts for the seat belts. Welding to the outside of the pillar or roof support, I'm afraid, would not help and could weaken the B-pillar metal. A couple of screws or rivets keep the plate in place, maintaining geometry. Simple, clean, and safe.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:56 pm ]
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In both Subby and the Valaint you either do up the harnesses or you sit on them......everyone does them up. he shoulder harness is so easy to slack or tighten I just loosen one side to reach for something....or use the remote for the cd/mp3 player in the sub. Adjusting the radio in the Valaint is moot....cant hear it anyway JB weld and seatbelt?........no

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:09 pm ]
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Quote: In both Subby and the Valaint you either do up the harnesses or you sit on them......everyone does them up. That looks like a pretty simple 1-buckle do-up, is that right? Wrap belts around you, click one buckle? Or is it two? Quote: shoulder harness is so easy to slack or tighten I just loosen one side to reach for something I wouldn't have a problem doing that. One of my beefs with a lot of US-make 3-point belts is that they accumulate a lot of slack (the makers' effort to make sure you never have to be even the teensiest, most imaginary bit annoyed by the seat belt). You have to jerk them, windowshade-style, to get them to retract. Sure, in a crash they lock, but that's no good when the shoulder belt has 8" slack in it (I put factory Export seatbelts in my Spirit R/T; they never grew slack). So I could tolerate something more restrictive than a typical US 3-pointer. Quote: JB weld and seatbelt?........no Yeah, what he said. No.

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Author:	RDJ [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:40 pm ]
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Quote: JB weld and seatbelt?........no I didn't mean only JB Weld. I was thinking aloud so to speak. I was thinking that If I welded around the edges of the b-pillar plate AND put JB weld behind the plate, that would give the plate more shear strength, since that is the direction the force would be going in a wreck. But it would be mounted up above the back window that has more metal than a b -illar. I'm just bouncing around ideas, so hopefully not my body.