the car: 74 valiant 4dr power steering

heres the deal: i live on a small island with limited wheel alignment facilities(two shops), one wont do an alignment for me because they are an inspection facility and the car is not really "street legal", the other says their machine doesn't have the specs for my car, and when i gave them specs found on this site, they said it would cost a few hundred dollars in labour for trial and error time. they said the car is solid enough and will hold an alignment, but i cant warrant spending hundreds of dollars on a free car that will only be driven a couple hundred miles a month.

so my question is: can i do a decent alignment in my garage? i know i have to start with ride height (which i would like lower than stock, but how low will be too low for the caster adjustment?), then caster, which i've been adjusting after work for two days now, with not much positive effect. then camber (which looks to me like it affects the previous caster setting), then toe.

my biggest issue (i think) is getting the caster set proper, when i adjust the UCA rearward that should make for more possitive caster correct? but if adjusted to max + caster i lose any possible camber adjustment, correct?

sorry about the loonng post, but im really having a hard time getting this dialed, and i cant afford to send it to a shop right now. any insight would be appreciated

Wow, that is a lot of trial and error time. What specs are you trying to use? Anything near "factory" should take an experienced alignment man less then an hour to set, provided your cams are not rusted. I can see the "extra" time if you have aftermarket control arms that have to be removed to adjust.
Depending, on what equipment you have, yes it is quite possible.
Ride height has very little affect on caster, it has a great affect on camber.
You will have to experiment on how low you can go, each car is a bit different. 2 inches should be close to the max with all stock parts.
Caster affects drifting pulling and steering wheel return, though has little affect on tire wear. Yes, max caster OR camber will greatly limit the adjustment you can do to the other. To adjust caster, rotate the cams in opposite directions. To adjust camber, rotate the cams the same way. I like to start with both cams straight up in the middle of their adjustment. From there I like to adj the camber a bit, then the caster a bit, to sneak up on both adjustments at the same time. At home this can take a while depending on exactly how you are taking your measurements, but with proper modern computerized alignment equipment, it is fairly easy.


Hope this helps some. You could always just drive it to NC and I'll do it for the standard $79.99 that the shop I work at charges. Seriously, you can do it. just take your time and don't let it confuse you.

TopHat

get the car street legal then get it aligned at the other shop.

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haha, funny guy. did i mention the car was free. personally i think the owner of the shop just didnt want to deal wit my car.

anyways, i made alot of progress last night, and its getting much better, but still not that safe fealing. the car does have all stock parts, and i do not have any special or computerized tools. i also dont have that flat of a shop floor, which is a pain in the ass.

right now the front UCA cam nut is set all the way "out from center," the rear cam is set approx 25% "in from center," which makes the camber look good (im trying to line the front wheels up with the rear, camber wise), but i have no way of measuring caster other than test driving.

the car will not center itself and is very touchy (it likes to dart whichever way i turn the wheel). and it also is suffering from some bump steer.

anybody know of a way that i can measure caster by myself?
this is very frustrating, but considering the progress i've made, im going to stick to it and see how good i can get the alignment before i take it to a shop to get them to put it on a proper rack.

You need one of these:
http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/i ... 29&catid=5

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Joshua

... or one of these:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/tls/635976226.html

If you need more camber adjustment you can use eccentric "problem solver" bushings in the upper control arm:

As you know, caster is defined as the center to center relationship between the upper and lower ball joint axis.

From your handling discription, the car needs more positive caster.
(lower ball joint center more forward of the upper BJ center)

The the factory adjustments are all about moving around the upper BJ position but a "backyard" trick is to move the lower control arm assembly forward, by stacking washer(s) under the front strut rod nut and "over-compressing" the strut rod bushings.
A better way to do this is to remove the strut rods and to turn down the inner washer sholders or to thread them deeper, so a second, "back-side" nut can be added. This will allow for additional caster adjustment via lower BJ position changes and allow you to maintain proper bushing compression by adjusting the two nuts. I see some aftermarket suspension part suppliers now offering these types of strut rods.
DD

Google "at home alignment" here are links to the first 4 hits

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/48938/index.html
http://www.nichols.nu/tip465.htm
http://www.drivewerks.com/tech/home_alignment.htm
http://www.quadesl.com/albums/camber.html

You can level the car with anything to "shim" the wheels up. Leftover peel and stick floor tiles work fairly well. It should be as close as possible, but I would not worry about a 1/16th or less, an eighth would not bother me too bad. You need to roll the car in to position, if you jack it up, you will need to roll it once it is on the floor to settle the suspension. Some form of "slip plates" are almost a must. An easy but messy home made set can be just 2 flat sheets of metal with grease between therm. Somebody on here once said to wet the inside of a plastic trash bag with soapy water and sandwhich that between your floor tiles, I think thats how it worked. I know the sheet metal and grease work, just messy.

To measure caster you need to turn the wheels with the weight on them, hence the need for the slip plates.

another caster link
http://tinyurl.com/4kn2b4

Your darting problem seems like a "toe" problem to me. You are re checking the toe each time you make an adjustment to the caster or camber? A small adjustment on the cams can have a fairly large effect on toe.


Here is another good link on "theory"
http://www.hunter.com/pub/undercar/2573T/index.htm

A few more links
http://racecarstuff.com/?page_id=2
http://tinyurl.com/3r8f74

If you spend a few dollars, you may never need to pay to have any car aligned ever again.

Good Luck

TopHat

ok...more progress. the car is now "driveable." it does'nt try and drive me off the road anymore. it does not wander and the toe and camber are pretty good, but the caster on the passenger side still needs major adjustment. if i let go of the steering wheel it pulls hard to the left, although steering is not stiff or unresponsive going either direction. i know the caster is out on the pass. side because the camber is good while the wheels are straight, but if i turn the wheels to the pass. side(turning right), the camber on the passenger wheel goes crazy negative. this means the caster is too negative(top ball joint in front of bottom ball joint), correct? could this cause the car to pull hard left??

my worry is that if i adjust for more positive caster its going to make for some pretty extreme neg. camber, because the front cam on the pass side is already at its extreme outwards possition.

grrr....my head hurts.

Is it a power steering car? If so, the PS valve body could need adjusting.

Are you sure there are no bent parts on the passenger side which would move the Lower Control Arm and LBJ rearward?

Off-set "problem solver" upper A-Arm bushing are another possible 'fix' but if there are bent parts in the suspension system, (LCA or K-frame) the off-set bushing are just a "patch" that covers-up the real problem.
DD

What specs are you tring to use or which ones where you offering to an alingment shop. I am wearing a little on the inside of my tires and it feels a little darty too. I plan to visit a known "old car" alingnment shop. I have a 74 K-member with discs on my 67 cuda, so the specs should be the same as yours, right?

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

it is power steering, how do i adjust the valve body?

there very well could be bent parts, the car has been owned by many teenagers. and there is noticable fender damage on the passenger side, but ive inspected the car pretty well and noticed nothing obvious.

whats the part # for these offset bushings??

See the FSM for the details on adjusting the PS valve body but in a nutshell, with the wheels pointed straight, jack the car up enough to get the front wheels off the ground and start the engine. If the steering "self-steers" to either side, loosen the two bolts that hold the valve body to the top of the steering box and tap it forward or backwards until the self-steering stops.
You only need to crack loose the hold down bolts a little or you will get leakage at the joint.

You may want to use a small square to see if the right side LCA is bent rearward.
Here is a thread on the off-set Moog bushings:
DD
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... og+bushing