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New piston rod combo, here's our logic
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28804		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  briannutter [ Wed May 07, 2008 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  New piston rod combo, here's our logic
Hi everyone, speaking with Cody, I think we've got a good workable combination worked out and I'd like to get your thoughts. Basically for us to keep it inexpensive, I'm thinking we could put the piston in our Pro Tru catalog. Our sister company is K1, so we're going to design the package together

We need to keep the part viable to the most amount of people to ensure demand. There are a few guys out there that need a "high compression piston" or a "turbo piston" customs, but for the other 95%...what do you think about this?:

I'll roll out some specs here so people can check our math. 4.120 stroke, 7.000 rod, 1.632 compression height piston will be located at 10.692. This should be about .010 "in the hole" at tdc....allowing a person to clean up the deck a bit. 55cc combustion chamber with a -5cc flat top (with valve pockets .237 intake depth and .245 exhaust depth or so) and .045 net piston to head clearance will net 10.3:1 compression. If people want to go up or down from that, working the chambers should get most people where they want to be.

We have a nice .901 pin to put in it. For rings, we generally use a 1/16 ring pack in the Pro Tru line, but at this bore size, It would be easiest for us to run our "XX" .040, .047, .110 ring pack. I know it sounds a bit thin compared to what people are used to running, so I want to explain it a bit. It's a Nitrided Steel top, napier 2nd, and a great oil ring. Very flat, very round. We use it in our Sport compact offerings and they are able to handle the highest boost/nitrous applications, yet they LAST a very long time....longer than rings 1.5 times thicker...due to the better material. Compared to some of the old technology, this change by itself will net a good increase in power with reduced friction and better seal. Here's where it's a bit strange. Because the rings are in ".5mm increments". I'd need people to go .025" .045", .065" over standard...not a big deal to me, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I *could* make a piston up to .400" shorter and run a rod length of 7.400". At this height, we still have plenty of skirt, the piston weight would drop a lot, and the rings lands would still be plenty thick. The downside is we'd potentially loose sales of a 7" rod that many people might like to have for use with other available known piston combinations.

Let me know your thoughts on this. We've got a VERY full line of new parts that we have to introduce before Jan. 09 and this one is a bit late to the table. I can do customs in the mean time at roughly $670 if people are in a hurry. I think the sales are there to support the stocking part number though. We're aiming for $500 pistons and $500 rods)....but don't hold me to it for certain.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed May 07, 2008 11:51 am ]
Post subject: 
$500 for rings! :shock:

How about Hastings 2M4689 (6) at about $100? Standard size of 87.5mm which is the same as the Dodge 2.2 pistons that are commonly used with 7" factory 198 rods. That's +.045" over the stock slant six bore.

Please see this thread: http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25197
Author:  Shaker223 [ Wed May 07, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm assuming he meant $500 rods.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed May 07, 2008 1:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I'm assuming he meant $500 rods.
Reread the last line of his post.
Author:  Shaker223 [ Wed May 07, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I did. Maybe he made a mistake.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Wed May 07, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
For the guys that have shaved there heads .100, what CC have your heads been coming out to ?

This would be one consern I could see at this compression level is maybe the ones that have shaved the head might get into trouble if there wanting a pump gas streeter. If I am thinking right a head shaved .100 thou ( which is where many people are) could hit as high as 12.8 with a setup like this. Thicker head gasket could help that, plus the chamber work as well but I am guessing there are more people with a good bit of money in heads that are shaved, than are not. Maybe some will come in with what CC there heads are coming out to.


Myself this hits in just the right spot. I can shave my head and reach a good tight compression, or a thicker head gasket and chamber work can get to turbo range. Being able to cut a dish in the piston if needed would be a plus if its possible and may help some avoid compression problems if they do have a lot of money in a head that has a small chamber. For some reason I am thinking a head cut .100 thou is around 40 to 45 CC's, I may be wrong though.


The ring package sounds good, its a proven combo. But I do hope the $500.00 ring price is a missprint ( I expect it is ) . Rings are responsible for a lot of power that todays engines reach and going back to older designs because they are cheaper is really a waste. There can be a hugh difference in the performance & durability just by running the right ring. Its well worth the cost ( although not $500.00, or anywhere close ) . Although good ring packs like this are higher than most are use to buying compaired to cast, or moly file ring sets.



How long would you expect before they could be ready if this becomes a go ? If I was to want the custom rods, how long does this take ?



Jess
Author:  runvs_826 [ Wed May 07, 2008 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm lost.... this is a K1 rep? If so you plan on re-making the 198 rods in a h-beam rod design that is the other thread, great.
So are you making custom pistons for the slant six, or for the long rod combo? I was looking at pistons for my turbo build and though slantzilla had pointed me in the direction of Ross at $360 for a basic set their site metions that it might be closer to $700. So if this was a set of Forged pistons I would offer you my business not so much that your cheaper, but more on the fact you guys are attempting to offer slant six aftermarket parts.
Author:  mopardemon71 [ Wed May 07, 2008 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
After Brain called me this moring I expressed my conserns about what people wanted for a piston, for those that do, for a stock motor using k-1 rods. Brain is from Wiesco pistons I see he forgot to say that part. for turbo and shaved heads could you still use the 2.4 pistons? I dont know thier pin size but if they are a 1.5/1.4 compression height is that an option? Remember this route first is a way for people to put together an engine and make it run with no issues. If these "stock" fitting type parts move then different things and options may come avalible when they see we are going to buy parts. this doesnt cover evryones needs but may keep that 16 year old for trashing that slant for a small block. One canonly dream.......... :wink:
Author:  slantzilla [ Thu May 08, 2008 8:28 am ]
Post subject: 
http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Automobile.aspx
Author:  runvs_826 [ Thu May 08, 2008 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
So zilla is that these guys or where you ordered your pistons from? I'm assuming it's these guys talking. Still don't see the price tag though, maybe a ball park anyone?
Author:  CARS [ Thu May 08, 2008 12:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I'm lost.... I was looking at pistons for my turbo build...
Ya, how many people are working on rods this week?

I like the way this is going though. Towards a rod/piston combo.

From what I am hearing, there are 3 of you working together on this but all posting your thoughts? So do I say I am in on rods and pistons on this thread or http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26519 ???
Author:  slantzilla [ Thu May 08, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
So zilla is that these guys or where you ordered your pistons from? I'm assuming it's these guys talking. Still don't see the price tag though, maybe a ball park anyone?
No, my pistons came from Ross. My only complaint was that they charged about $40 per piston to move the pin .100". They are thick deck forged nitrous pistons that will yield 9.5-1 compression with a 3.5" bore, 58cc chamber and a stock 6.7 rod. I had them make 8.

My Ross pistons were:

Piston-$100 each
Wrist pins-$18 each
Ring sets-$25 each

That should give everyone an idea what a custom piston goes for. :shock:
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu May 08, 2008 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, $240 to move the pins. Venolia is much cheaper.
Author:  slantzilla [ Thu May 08, 2008 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Wow, $240 to move the pins. Venolia is much cheaper.
We were going to use Venolia, but they screwed up the last 2 sets of pistons Mike ordered from them. :?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu May 08, 2008 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
What happened and did they make it right?
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