I appologize because this has probably already been covered; but did Mopar stop making the /6 electronic kit that I'd normally use to get rid of lean burn? Don't see it at Mancini's or Jeg's.
I just bought a really clean '67 short bed Ram with a /6 in it. I need to lose the lean and get a free flow exhaust on it and it'll be great. I wish I'd have come across it a few weeks sooner, I'd been racing it at the Classic!

You said '67, but I think you must have meant '87. You will need a distributor with vacuum and centrifigal advance, and an ignition module. If it were me, I would get a factory manual for a 73 Dart, and follow the wiring and parts applications for that year. This was the first year of the electronic ignition, but with a minimum of plumbing for polution control. There are other ways to go, of course, but this would give you factory numbers to find after market substitutes for. Once you know what parts you are looking for, you could go on Moparts.com and likely find the distributor and ignition module you need.

If you look at my thread on MSD advice under both the fuel injection and engine sections, Dan has posted a link to the HEI conversion, which would work fine for your truck with the proper distributor.

Sam

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Middle of the page here:

http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_perf ... nition.htm

At $270 you get everything you need to perform the MOPAR electronic ignition conversion. It isn't particularly cheap, but then neither is taking time off to prowl a junk yard and yank various parts and try to make this all work. I spent the $270--can't complain, instructions where there and it started right up. I'm not certain about the advance curve in this thing, but for now it works. At some time in the future I will see about dialing in the advance curve perhaps...

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Slanted D150

That kit was never really worth buying; the distributor it included had an advance curve totally unsuitable for street use, and the "orange box" ECU it came with was of poor/inconsistent quality. It has also always been grossly overpriced for what you get. The HEI upgrade is better.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,

Good to know about the advance curve--probably explains a few things. Time to test out the advance I suppose. What ails the advance on the stock MOPAR ignition..is it too much too soon or what? Ironically Chrysler calls it a "performance" advance curve--must be talking about a dragster...

I can't say that I have any complaints about the quality of the thing--it works. Ask me in five years though. I can't speak to any negatives about it so far, but a positive about it is that it IS a "stock" MOPAR part which is well supported by the factory service manual, Chilton, Haynes, etc. It is also something that gets through the emissions check world with zero issues (which matters for certain years in certain places). The HEI info here seems like enough information to make the HEI swap with no problems, and the emissions stuff should be no problem if they look at what matters (which is what comes out of the tailpipe).

If I had found the Slant Six site first I would have given the HEI swap some thought--however, I would still have needed the distributor, etc. It almost begs the question of a market existing for a "pre-packaged" kit for Lean Burn replacement that uses the HEI parts. I would have paid for a packaged HEI swap if one existed--time=money and all that. As much as I like digging through a junkyard, I do the math, any more than two hours and I am over the cost mark. Add in a wife and three kids and you really have to think about spending time chasing after "used" autoparts that you have to make work. If the Orange Box croaks I will certainly HEI it at that point.

Anyway, it is nice to pick up those nuances about the so-called "plug and play" stuff (i.e the MOPAR ignition kit)--tweaking the advance curves is something that seldom is stressed as important--probably more important than many other tweaks.

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Slanted D150

$190 for a 'remanf' distributor

I got better ways to gamble on an unknown timing curve than that...

'Performance' is for drag racing and the curve is not meant to idle cleanly, and is totally advanced just off of idle...

What ails the advance on a stock distributor is it's a bit slow (for smog) and generally curved for a 'set' of vehicles ('car' and 'truck' and 'big car')... you'll have to sit down with a timing light, drive with a vacc. gauge and find out how your truck likes to 'cruise' then tailor a curve from that...


-D.Idiot

"And culling through a junkyard isn't so bad.... for the parts a pair of wire cutters, a 3/8 ratchet, 10" extension, 7/16" socket for the distributor hold down, and a 3/8" socket for the EI module/Ballast Resistor bolts..."

The Mopar Performance electronic conversion kit contained the Mopar Performance "race" distributor, which has only a single ultra-lightweight spring in the centrifugal advance mechanism. This dumps all the advance in immediately above idle, as DI says. In order to avoid massive ping, you have to retard the base timing so far that starting, running, drivability, and mileage all suffer badly.

Some of the factory stock electronic ignition advance curves were slow and short, others were rather good. Take a look at this post and this one; those distributors are still out there brand new — here's one, for example. I have also purchased a couple of these Prestolite-built new electronic distributors, which seem to come with a pretty good advance curve (though I haven't plotted it) and have the Prestolite-type vacuum advance can you can disassemble and adjust both in response level and total advance supplied.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

So, what are your thoughts on curving the following:

1982 D-150
Two barrel Weber...32/36 DGEV--progressive
Super Six intake manifold
Stock exhaust
Stock everything else (8.4:1 compression, etc)
Lean Burn conversion to MOPAR Orange box and electronic distributor (with its dubious advance curve)
3.56:1 rear end (so says the build sheet--I know the history of this truck so I am certain it is still a 3.56--haven't checked though)
A833 O/D with 0.73:1 O/D

Performs moderately well in the first three gears--you need the flats for the O/D otherwise it lugs. Webers "like" to be wound up a little to make shifting into the power band smooth, but there is no winding into the O/D unless you are above 55mph. Initial timing is set at 16 degrees, haven't checked total advance yet...

I have had this thing up to the speedo limit at 85 mph--a practical top speed is more like 75 mph (although the engine finally enters the power curve in O/D at say 65 mph). At 75 mph you get the sense that curves are not your friend... In other words, it drives like the old truck that it is. I do tow stuff with it. A numerically higher rear end is likely to go in it soon, a 3.9 or 4.1, still vacillating (I am soon to move so this may or may not be a good time to get the rear end done).

I plan on getting a 2-1/4" exhaust in it as well, new cat and muffler, all of the free flowing variety.

Sounds like some re-curving will bring some life to it. At 37,000 original miles the engine is in fine condition, milling the head is on the books as a "someday" project.

What I would like is a smooth idle, and strong torque from idle all the way to crusising speed (65 mph). This is no race car. I am game for a cam swap, etc when I get the head shaved. I assume that I can yank the cam WITH the engine in the truck, but perhaps I am wrong.

Regarding parts: All I could find in my local junkyards were Lean burn rigs--hence the spendy MOPAR ignition--although spendy is relative, all depends on one's hourly pay and how far you have to go to prowl a junkyard. I have to drive two hours to find a larger wrecking yard! I travel about 8 months out of the year so time at home is quite valuable.

The upside is that I did find two D-100/D-150's (both Lean Burns) that supplied me with everything else I needed. Saw a mostly whole Dart in the yard too, almost a restoration quality project. Interesting little local junkyard, run by the "Hills Have Eyes" folks, and well on its way to becoming a Superfund clean up site. Prices are in increments of $5, and nothing is over $50 so far. Tetanus and dengue fever are free!

Thankfully, I am moving to Spokane soon--Spaldings here I come (love that place).

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Slanted D150

Found this site (below), although it is for a Chevy I believe the general recurving drill is correct...is that the case?

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/joevet ... urve.shtml

Having never actually recurved a distributor before I presume it is much like jetting a carb...i.e. results will vary vehicle to vehicle for a given spring combination, etc. Road testing, stop watches, butt dyno, etc are what dials it in...Thoughts?

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Slanted D150

Mine came wih 2 springs. ??

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Super Six Conversion Stromberg

Seen 'em that way, too — either way, the mechanical advance curve is "all in right now", not appropriate for the street.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I finally took my re-manufactured distributor apart to see what was in it. It would appear that it has a heavy looped spring and a medium spring--by visual inspection these springs are exactly the same as what I just yanked out of a wrecking yard Dart (down to the color, spring wire thickness, # of spring coils, and length). I tested the spring rate/tension using small weights and a ruler--the same (more or less given parallex error of my eyeball)

I think that the assertation that the re-manufactured distributor based MOPAR Lean Burn replacement kit has the "race" curve in it is incorrect, it would appear that the curve is whatever was in the distributor when it was "rebuilt." This could be worse I suppose--in any case it DOES look like a total crap shoot so a wrecking yard distributor might be a beter path to follow. In my case the springs were the same as the stock Dart, but the rebuilt distributor DID have a 9R mechanical advance governor--I swapped that for the 15R governor that came from the Dart. This performs better in my truck. Note that the re-manufactured distributor was missing the small indexing pin that the advance plate slides into--I swapped that pin from the wrecking yard distributor (not that it matters since the plate is screwed into the distributor body).

Anyway, I think I just picked up the distributor re-curving bug, I might just see about nabbing a few distributors and building up various curves to see how they do in the truck. Just some direct experience/observation for what it is worth. It would be nice to know where the re-builders get their distributor parts--that would be handy...

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Slanted D150

A tension scale is required to determine the characteristics of whatever spring you might be interested in. The eye does not suffice. Furthermore, the anchor posts to which the springs attach are eccentrically mounted, such that the effective spring tension and the threshhold RPM at which the large-loop spring slows down the rate of advance are both adjustable. Thus, the same springs can give very different advance curves.
The Mopar Performance kit is not based on a remanufactured distributor, it is based on a new one with a race-only, all in - all at once centrifugal advance curve (really a diagonal line more than a curve). Whether you believe this or not, it stubbornly remains true.
From their box of "cores".

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan,

I am simply pointing out that the distributor that I purchased clearly is NOT a MOPAR performance model--presumably due to its re-built nature. I finally went to the Mech Eng lab with my springs and tested them--within 3.5 % of each other...accounting for age and some loss of spring tension they are the same springs.

They are basically the same springs--which tells me that the re-builders just pump out what they started with--which is no doubt why they sell the lighter, full advance springs for an extra $10 or so. I really wonder where the 9R governor came from. Any thoughts on what governors were used in what vehicles? A post about the mechanical advance governors used by vehicle type would qualify as useful--your "obviously there is no inflection in e-mail" sidebars are not useful at all, you clearly know your stuff but you DO come across poorly at times--more smileys are needed!

I think the lesson here is that unless you demand a certain distributor curve from a rebuilder you have NO idea what you will get. This is NOT a case of me some how wanting the MOPAR performance distributor to be something it is not (which is just a silly thing to say)--it is merely an observation on a rebuilt item that was supplied as a kit (my point is don't take anything for granted, and remember what assume means). The place I purchased mine from simply collected the needed parts in a kit form, and provided instructions--they made no particular claims about the distributor... That was my point in posting--that a person does need to inspect the guts of the distributor to see what they have.

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Slanted D150

Ah. It seems our misunderstanding each other was probably due to your use of the phrase "MOPAR kit"; when you said the assertation that the re-manufactured distributor based MOPAR Lean Burn replacement kit has the "race" curve in it is incorrect, it read to me as though you were referring to the one and only Mopar electronic ignition kit, which is the Mopar Performance kit containing a new distributor w/race curve. There's no other kit — if you don't buy the MP kit w/race curve, you go out and fetch all the parts separately — new, used, and/or remanufactured — from whatever source you pick.
Interesting...where did you get this kit?
H'mm. Which rebuilders have you encountered who offer lighter springs for extra money? Pretty much all I've ever seen is one reman distributor offered for all single-pickup/vacuum-advance/electronic-ignition slant-6 applications '73 and up. Specifying a '78 Aspen with Federal emissions and a 2bbl 225 gets you the same distributor as specifying a '74 Valiant with California emissions and a 1bbl 198, despite there having been numerous significantly different advance curves in the distributors original to the various model/year/engine/transmission/emission package configurations. That means it's up to the fates what kind of a curve your remanufactured distributor will have.
True, but unfortunately it's also information that's effectively not available — not without scrutinising an immense collection of original/non-rebuilt distributors made between 1973 and 1981 or so.
Smileys — such as the one I used — are the online substitute for inflection, and I don't post "sidebars", because we are not in a courtroom. I realise I can be a little crotchety sometimes. Now that I know you find some of my posts objectionable, I promise I'll stop making you read them.
One's enough. If one won't get the job done, then neither will ten or twenty.
There's usually no means by which to do so, unless you're dealing with a build-to-order type of business who'll build up your distributor the way you want. If you're buying a reman distributor through normal parts distribution channels, there's no such a thing as demanding anything. You take what they give or...you don't. :shrug:

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.