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My Slant wont crank....
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Author:  79JON [ Tue May 20, 2008 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  My Slant wont crank....
Ok.. I have a 72 Duster Slant 6 225. When I bought the car it barely ran because it needed the carb rebuilt... but it did run if you held the gas down alittle. So I start tearing down the motor to change everything headgasket up. New parts: Timing chain, water pump, carb rebuilt, plugs, wires, all new gaskets, it had a new fuel pump on prior to me buying, starter relay.
So I put the motor back together, got a new gas tank, fuel lines all the way to the carb. I go to cranking on it and it just turns over but nothing. We checked if it was getting spark and it was. Everytime I would crank on it, I would add a little gas in the carb so it would help fire it up. But nothing.. it wouldnt even stumble or act like it wants to start and run.

I'm kind of lost at what is wrong. I think I have a couple of things going on with it though.. 1. Ive noticed thats its not pumping the the gas from the tank to the carb... But ive put my finger on the fuel pump when it was cranked and it blows it off.. so im sure its good. I used 5/16 fuel line and I know there are not any kinks in the lines. 2. I never touched my distributor when working on the motor but i did buy new plug wires for it. The wires i got ended up being kinda cheap and they barely want to stay on the distributor... but it still got spark.. Sorry for the long message but im trying to lay it out for someone... and see if anyone can help me out. See if I missed anything.
Author:  Fratzog [ Tue May 20, 2008 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
You should be able to slide the boots up a bit on your wires. I usually creep mine up a touch, snap the terminal in the socket, then bring the boot down over the dist. lip otherwise mine don't stay in either.
Author:  polara pat [ Tue May 20, 2008 8:53 am ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like you may have an air lock between the pump and the tank. Is your new tank vented? Try taking your cap off and cranking. You can also take the line off of the pump on the inlet side, put a catch can underneath and using compressed air and your hand to create a bit of a seal pressurize the tank. That way fuel is at the pump and it sounds like that's working. Aside from that, check for spark, did you take out your dist? One tooth out is so easy to do.
Author:  Doc [ Tue May 20, 2008 9:51 am ]
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If the timing chain was changed, the distributor may no longer be in the correct position.
Find true TDC, compression stroke and reset the distributor to fire about 10 degrees before TDC.
How did you adjust the valves after removing the cylinder head?
Were the old and new head gaskets the same thickness?
DD
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue May 20, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like there's no cranking problem (the starter motor turns the engine when you operate it — that's what "cranking" means) but the engine won't fire. The fact that it won't fire even when you splash gas down the carb suggests problems with spark, spark timing, and/or camshaft timing. Spark and camshaft timing are suspect because you put in a new timing chain. New plug wires...are you sure you got them all installed in the right sequence, correct distributor cap tower to correct spark plug?

And if the carburetor isn't filling with gas, remove the fuel line where it attaches to the carburetor, direct it safely into a deep gasproof container, and operate the starter (from inside the car!) to see if you get a spurt of gas out of the line. If so, there's something the matter with the carburetor, probably a problem with the inlet needle and seat and/or float adjustment.
Author:  79JON [ Tue May 20, 2008 12:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey there.. thanks for the replies.. i appreciate. Im currently away from the car right now as it is at my brothers house about 2 hours away. When I get back up there on another weekend.. ill give it a go again. About the gas problem, I did take off the line and fuel filter between the fuel pump and carb and noticed it was bone dry. But the pump worked... So ill check for the air lock thing and see what happens on that. Im not sure if the tank is vented or not.. i know there is a return line that is connected to it.. so Im guessing that is what you mean. When I took the head off i didnt really compair the thickness of the head gaskets... but i would say the new one was alittle thicker. I really didnt adjust the valves honestly. Just took the head off.. cleaned it up. put the rockers back on the way way they came off. The distributor was never moved or touched but I forgot that me changing the timing chain might move the distributor. I look into that as well. I checked and rechecked the wire sequence with the book and my brothers 73 dart slant 6 and they are correct. But ill have to play around with it when I get back up there to tinker on it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue May 20, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Im not sure if the tank is vented or not
It is vented to the charcoal canister at the right front corner of the engine bay. Also, the fuel cap is a pressure/vacuum (valve-regulated, vented) type.
Quote:
I really didnt adjust the valves honestly.
That won't do. Turn the engine manually until each rocker in turn is completely slack (no spring tension at all) and set them, cold, to 0.013" (intakes) and 0.024" (exhaust). You can do the final adjustment once the car's running again.
Author:  volaredon [ Wed May 21, 2008 7:06 am ]
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When you say that you used "5/16 fuel LINE" I hope that doesn't mean that you used HOSE all the way from carb to tank. You need to have steel line there other than a short pigtail at the ends where you hook into the tank and the fuel pump.
Author:  79JON [ Wed May 21, 2008 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
I used steel lines all the way from the sending unit to the carb. Only areas where I have rubber hoses is a few inches of line at the sending unit and at the fuel pump.
Quote:
That won't do. Turn the engine manually until each rocker in turn is completely slack (no spring tension at all) and set them, cold, to 0.013" (intakes) and 0.024" (exhaust). You can do the final adjustment once the car's running again.

When I get back up there to work on it ill adjust the valves to these specs. I have to ask.. will this be part of my problem keeping it from firing? Im new to the slant 6's.

Thanks,
Jon
Author:  Doc [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...will this be part of my problem keeping it from firing? Im new to the slant 6's.
Yes, especially if the valves are tight. (no lash clearance)
With-out proper lash, the valves do not close and seal completly, so you will not get good compression. No compression = no start.

Do you remember the engine's sound when you were turning it over, trying to start it? Did you hear even "beats" as each cylinder came up to compression or did it sound un-even or like it was turning over with-out spark plugs installed? (no compression) That is a clue about proper valve adjustment and cylinder pressure. (compression)
DD
Author:  79JON [ Wed May 21, 2008 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Yes, especially if the valves are tight. (no lash clearance)
With-out proper lash, the valves do not close and seal completly, so you will not get good compression. No compression = no start.

Do you remember the engine's sound when you were turning it over, trying to start it? Did you hear even "beats" as each cylinder came up to compression or did it sound un-even or like it was turning over with-out spark plugs installed? (no compression) That is a clue about proper valve adjustment and cylinder pressure. (compression)
DD

Ok.. I see what you are saying.. and Im betting that is what the deal is. If i remember correctly, the first couple times i turned the motor over.. it didnt sound good at all and it was like i had the firing order off.. which I did have wire swapped. So when i fixed that, I thought that would fix the problem. Then the rest of the time the motor would just turn over but not crank at all. When I get back to it, Ill adjust the valves and check the timing before I go to cranking on it again. I just hope I didnt bend any pushrods or something.
Author:  kipamore [ Wed May 21, 2008 11:24 am ]
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I've had problems in the past with the rubber fuel line being cracked and aged such that it can suck air in, but doesn't appear to leak. I would take the fuel fitting off the carb and verify that fuel is present there while cranking, and that it's not foam or bubbles. Just a tip.

You could also be off a tooth on the distributor, or have the wires misclocked by one tower. It's worth checking. Align the mark on the pulley and pull the valve cover. Now you can verify that at Obtdc (could be 180 out, try it both ways), both valves on #1 cyclinder are closed and the distributor rotor is at least close to the #1 tower.

With a quick shot of starting fluid, and ignition that at least close to pallpark, you should be able to get the motor to at hiccup and fire. If so, then the problem is fuel. If not, then the problems is spark and/or fuel.

Also, I've had many a slant where the hot wire to the coil from the points was flakey. Ditto with the hot wire from the car to the + side of the coil. It's a small gauge wire, easily knocked around. Easy to check.

Plug wires that aren't getting a good grip should be able to arc and generally work, at least at low speeds. You can often "retension" them too.

Also verify that while cranking you have 12v at the + terminal on the coil. That's an easy one.

It's going to be process of elimination from here on out.

Kip on Truckin'
Author:  79JON [ Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I havent posted in awhile but I just wanted to update everyone that I finally got my slant to run after fighting a few bugs this weekend. Thanks for everyone's help on here, yall pretty much nailed it on what was wrong. Turns out when I replaced the timing chain the (leaving the distributor in) it moved the distributor about 90 degrees off. So I got the TDC piston stop tool, set it to TDC. Installed a new electronic distributor replacing the points and she fired right up. I then adjusted all the valves while it was nice and warm. I was surprised at how good it ran for not running in years. I still have to get a timing light to fine tune but it did idle on its own just fine right off the bat.. which i was surprised haha. Now im off to working the the brakes and suspension!!
Author:  Doc [ Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Good work, well done.
Keep us posted on your progress.
DD
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