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help with putting together a decent 170 combination
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Author:  saints72 [ Thu May 29, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  help with putting together a decent 170 combination
I have a '64 Dart 270 conv. that has been sitting in the garage for about 4-1/2 years now with a hole in the #1 piston about the size of a quarter. It's time to get her running again. I've got a budget of about $3,000 to get it going. It'll only be driven occasionally, not a daily driver or racer (but not completely guttless either).
Here's what I've got in mind: Remanufactured 170 $550, Clifford headers, intake, and valve cover $763. Which leaves me with about $1700 (not that it all has to be used) for a carb, dist., battery, and anything else I need to get it running.
I've never worked with a slant before, so here are my concerns:
Cam-the Clifford cam at $470 seems a bit pricey, and I'm not sure how much it would help w/o their head? Is there a cheaper option?
Carb-What kind? 2bbl ? Linkage and cable issues?
Is there any other concerns I should have ie. tranny etc.?
Am I wasting my time and money on the 170, should I use a 225?
Like I said, I'm a 6cyl virgin and have no idea where to get this info other than here, and this is where everyone says to go (although they claim they've never been here) :lol:
Thanks for your input.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu May 29, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is the car a 170 now? I would expect that $550 170 is a just the short block. Are you going to reuse your existing cylinder head, valve gear, etc? Clifford is expensive for cams and does not have a good selection. They may also sell you a hydraulic cam with the wrong lifters and tell you it will work fine with your mechanical valve gear; it won't. Erson is still doing special pricing on cams and lifters the last I knew. Also, the Clifford headers do not fit a 170 without modifications.

All the questions about carburetors, intake manifolds, cam selection, exhaust and headers have all been answered. You have some searching and reading ahead of you. Once you've done a few hours of reading you'll probably have questions so feel free to ask for clarification.
Author:  6shotvanner [ Thu May 29, 2008 5:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Saints,like Joshie said,use the search function.I suggest you get a tall cool one and maybe a couple excedrin because there is a ton of info on this site and you have a lot of reading/printing ahead.Sort of like reading War and Peace :wink: Do all that then ask your questions there are waaayyy cool folks on this forum that have "been there done that and have the tee shirt".Good luck 8)
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu May 29, 2008 7:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is there a particular reason you want the 170? They are a good engine, and will turn higher revs, then a 225, given the same mods, but also have some unique problems. Can't run a big a cam, without valve reliefs, and milling the head agravates this situation. There is no bolt on header for a 170, in any chassis.

Plus it is a royal pain to change the water bypass hose :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri May 30, 2008 5:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome on the board. I would not recommend this plan of action you propose. Clifford's not only priced high for what you get, but their reliability as a vendor and their customer service are stinkin'. Your money will go a lot farther towards getting you a result you like if you put it instead into a custom-rebuilt engine rather than an off-the-shelf "remanufactured" unit.

Before you start speccing-out parts, it's best to define your goals for this car. Is it to be a grocery getter? Mileage runner? City warrier, highway flyer? How, where, and when do you plan to drive it? Which transmission is in it? Plan out very specifically what you want the car to do in terms of performance and economy, then work from there to figure out what to buy and what to do.

(NB if you're working on a budget: fancy valve covers cost a lot of money but do not make you go faster or get better mileage!)
Author:  runvs_826 [ Fri May 30, 2008 8:24 am ]
Post subject: 
These guys are hitting some good points. One suggestion would be to step up to the 225. There more common to the extenet of I paid 0 for my last long block cause he had destroyed the rest of the truck.
The point being is that all the aftermarket parts (the few there are) seem to be pointed in the 225 direction. The cams, headers, ect. I would assume you could overcarb the little buggars with a 4 barell real fast... Anyways, the 225 with it's proven torque will give you much more seat in the pants power, get great gas, and will be easier to build with over 50 more cubes than the 170. I believe the 170 stroked would be a great racing motor, but that isn't what you want.
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri May 30, 2008 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
When you start with a measley 225 cubes, why handicap yourself even further and go to a 170? RPM's are cool, but what good are they if you don't have enough grunt to get into your powerband?

Most any cam grinder will get you a cam way cheaper than Clifford. About the only thing you're tied to them for is a header, because no one else makes one for your bodystyle.

Clifford's head is nothing special either. Mike Jeffrey will do you one that will be much better and probably cheaper. 308/324-3576

Sounds like a neat little car though. :D
Author:  saints72 [ Fri May 30, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
First off,Thanks for your responses, They are very helpful. Now let me answer some of your questions.
Joshie- yes the car is a 170 now, the $550 170 is a long block that was re-built about 10 years ago at my in-laws old shop thats been sitting (shrink wrapped) that they're willing to give me a deal on. The only reason that I was leaning that way (excuse the pun) is because that is what was originally in the car, and I've been told that the 225 is taller and I don't know if that will create clearance or tranny problems. My original intention was to put a 273 (which I have but also needs a rebuild) in it. I've kind of went away from that idea for the same reasons.
As far as doing some reading, I've done that and unfortunately have more questions than answers. Best I can tell the Clifford headers flat out wont work on a 170 without mods although I couldn't seem to find out what kind of mods?
Charlie S- See reasons above
/6 Dan-Cruisin' down PCH, mileage isn't an issue, but I also don't want to get smoked by a VW. The tranny is stock (904?) push-button which I want to keep, which is another reason I've steered away from the 273. The car will only be driven with the top down which is basically year round in SoCal but not my daily driver by any means. Like my Fury, people out here don't see alot of classics on the road and it's not uncommon for them to want to look under the hood. It's a nice looking car, Under the hood will be the same(ie. valve cover,etc.) :wink:
826- I'm not at all opposed to going with a 225 if there are not other issues. Is it a direct bolt in swap with no major clearance or tranny issues?
Slantzilla- See above, what I really don't want to do is get into a bunch of custom machine work and or butchering my car. ie. bolt it together and drop it in.

P.S I've come across a '64 4-door for $3500 with a bunch of mods. He's calling it a 245? It has Clifford headers and intake, Holley 4bbl, Firestorm elec ign., front disc's, a '69 Road Runner rear. It runs strong but he didn't do the work himself so he couldn't tell me alot about whats going on there.I'd love to buy it and swap the parts into my conv. but it looks like they've butchered the frame and the wiring is shaky at best. Sound like a can of worms?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri May 30, 2008 1:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 225 bolts right in with no clearance issues. The only change is to make the exhaust down pipe slightly longer. Just be sure to use the oil pan and pickup tube from your original engine. If you do want to use a '68 and later engine all you have to do is buy the ~$20 bushing to properly support the torque converter in the back of the crank. If you stick with a '67 and earlier engine with the small crankshaft pilot hole you don't even need the bushing. The extra torque of the 225 is noticeable, but a fresh 170 is a deal at $550.

The Clifford headers require cutting and welding on the front section to clear the steering box. Since this car is a cruiser I'd steer you towards the Dutra Duals.

The '64 4-door doesn't sound like a very good deal. We can get you something nice and get you in under your $3000 budget by quite a lot if you are willing to do some of your own work.
Author:  saints72 [ Fri May 30, 2008 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joshie, thanks for your help...I'll definately be doing the removing, installing and bolting together of the new parts. I really want to buy my parts off the shelf, I don't have enough time to be hitting the bone yards anymore. Fortunately, I have access to a fully equiped sheet-metal shop 24/7,BUT I don't want to have to use it!!! But, modifying the exhaust is not a problem at all. So that is my only issue with swapping in the 225(other than the cost increase)? Believe me, I'm not opposed to more power for a few hundred more bucks.
Author:  runvs_826 [ Fri May 30, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, unless I'm missing something. I can find 225's all day long for a couple hundered at worst, or free in my last case. The 170 which I wanted to stroke to 200 and build a strong turbo motor was going to coast me 500 if I drove to southern Oregon to get it. It should bolt up to your old stuff. But my overall point with the 225 is the torque differences will be your ally if your not a horsepower junkie. Graned you don't need a screamer, but I want a strong engine also, that's where torque will come from. Last you should be able to "bolt" one together ie shave head, cam from isky, intake and headers and have a nice little motor.
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