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 Post subject: Cold Dart
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2001 11:40 am 
Hi

I am new to this this site and hope I can get some advice.

I have a 64 Dart 225 with electronic ignition which I cannot seem to get the carb correctly adjusted. Pro mechanics have attempted but have not had any luck either. Warm starts and warm days the car is fine with the exception of an inconsistant idle (idle speed will rise and fall). My main problem is cold weather. The car will start and run perfectly on fast idle when
cold. However, putting the car in gear will cause the car to stall. The first stop will cause the idle to drop (it is still on fast idle cam), run rough and stall. Accelerating will result in hesitation and will stall making turns.

What I have tried: Purchased NOS carb. No change. Reset floats as best I could. (I set the floats with the Carter carb, on the car) I do have a repair manual and have followed the instructions. This helped some. Tried setting mixture as I have read much about to rich/lean. I have never been able to figure out how to tell when car is rich/lean? Plugs are typically brownish in color and dry. Have reset timing to 10 degrees BTDC and I do have the vacuum advance connected. Vacuum does advance when I hit the gas. (Verified with timming light) I do get what appears to be a solid stream of gas when I accelerate, but I have not worked on any other carbs to compare.
Could the trouble be the choke?? Or maybe something else?? I have heard much about adjusting the choke. How do I do this? Not much to adjust?? Or am I missing something.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much of the symptoms as possible. Any advice for me to check/change/adjust would be much appreciated as I am desparate!

Thanks!

davejason@aol.com


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:38 am 
Quote:
: I am new to this this site and hope I can get
: some advice.
:
: I have a 64 Dart 225 with electronic ignition
: which I cannot seem to get the carb
: correctly adjusted. Pro mechanics have
: attempted but have not had any luck either.
: Warm starts and warm days the car is fine
: with the exception of an inconsistant idle
: (idle speed will rise and fall). My main
: problem is cold weather. The car will start
: and run perfectly on fast idle when
: cold. However, putting the car in gear will
: cause the car to stall. The first stop will
: cause the idle to drop (it is still on fast
: idle cam), run rough and stall. Accelerating
: will result in hesitation and will stall
: making turns.
:
: What I have tried: Purchased NOS carb. No
: change. Reset floats as best I could. (I set
: the floats with the Carter carb, on the car)
: I do have a repair manual and have followed
: the instructions. This helped some. Tried
: setting mixture as I have read much about to
: rich/lean. I have never been able to figure
: out how to tell when car is rich/lean? Plugs
: are typically brownish in color and dry.
: Have reset timing to 10 degrees BTDC and I
: do have the vacuum advance connected. Vacuum
: does advance when I hit the gas. (Verified
: with timming light) I do get what appears to
: be a solid stream of gas when I accelerate,
: but I have not worked on any other carbs to
: compare.
: Could the trouble be the choke?? Or maybe
: something else?? I have heard much about
: adjusting the choke. How do I do this? Not
: much to adjust?? Or am I missing something.
:
: Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give
: as much of the symptoms as possible. Any
: advice for me to check/change/adjust would
: be much appreciated as I am desparate!


Sounds like the choke is out of adjustment or there is a real lean condition. (try plugging the PCV valve to see if that helps) There could be an intake leak or you have a lean carb which needs it's "step-up" enrichment circuit adjusted.

Start with the choke, I put a page together to walk through the adjustment points so give that a shot first. (see the link below)
DD


Choke Adjustment Link
Image


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 6:03 pm 
Quote:
: Hi
:
: I am new to this this site and hope I can get
: some advice.
:
: I have a 64 Dart 225 with electronic ignition
: which I cannot seem to get the carb
: correctly adjusted. Pro mechanics have
: attempted but have not had any luck either.
: Warm starts and warm days the car is fine
: with the exception of an inconsistant idle
: (idle speed will rise and fall). My main
: problem is cold weather. The car will start
: and run perfectly on fast idle when
: cold. However, putting the car in gear will
: cause the car to stall. The first stop will
: cause the idle to drop (it is still on fast
: idle cam), run rough and stall. Accelerating
: will result in hesitation and will stall
: making turns.
:
: What I have tried: Purchased NOS carb. No
: change. Reset floats as best I could. (I set
: the floats with the Carter carb, on the car)
: I do have a repair manual and have followed
: the instructions. This helped some. Tried
: setting mixture as I have read much about to
: rich/lean. I have never been able to figure
: out how to tell when car is rich/lean? Plugs
: are typically brownish in color and dry.
: Have reset timing to 10 degrees BTDC and I
: do have the vacuum advance connected. Vacuum
: does advance when I hit the gas. (Verified
: with timming light) I do get what appears to
: be a solid stream of gas when I accelerate,
: but I have not worked on any other carbs to
: compare.
: Could the trouble be the choke?? Or maybe
: something else?? I have heard much about
: adjusting the choke. How do I do this? Not
: much to adjust?? Or am I missing something.
:
: Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give
: as much of the symptoms as possible. Any
: advice for me to check/change/adjust would
: be much appreciated as I am desparate!
:
: Thanks!


Hi Doug

I am making some progress! I have made an adjustment to the U operating link. I thought that my problem came closest to the "squeeze shut" solution, so I tried that first. The car ran MUCH better!! The temp in Ft. Wayne is 45 degrees tonight, so I need to run it a few days to be sure, but so far NO hesitation and NO stalling!! This is like a early Christmas present! LOL

I do have a couple of follow up questions.

Re: the PVC valve. When the car is running on fast idle and I disconnect the hose from the carb, the idle speed increases. If the car is warm and at curb idle, pulling the hose from the carb will cause the car to immediately stall. Is this what you meant by "plugging the PVC valve"? Did the engine do what it was supposed to do?

Re: the Heat Riser. All of the springs etc on the hear riser are gone. Will this cause a problem? Should I try to replace it or leave as is?

Thank you for your time and excellent advice!

Dave

davejason@aol.com


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 9:17 pm 
Quote:
: I am making some progress! I have made an
: adjustment to the U operating link. I
: thought that my problem came closest to the
: "squeeze shut" solution, so I
: tried that first. The car ran MUCH better!!
: The temp in Ft. Wayne is 45 degrees tonight,
: so I need to run it a few days to be sure,
: but so far NO hesitation and NO stalling!!
: This is like a early Christmas present! LOL
:
: I do have a couple of follow up questions.
:
: Re: the PVC valve. When the car is running on
: fast idle and I disconnect the hose from the
: carb, the idle speed increases. If the car
: is warm and at curb idle, pulling the hose
: from the carb will cause the car to
: immediately stall. Is this what you meant by
: "plugging the PVC valve"? Did the
: engine do what it was supposed to do?
:
: Re: the Heat Riser. All of the springs etc on
: the hear riser are gone. Will this cause a
: problem? Should I try to replace it or leave
: as is?


I suggested "plugging" the PCV to help test for a lean carb. or maniflod leak. The PCV acts as a controled vacuum leak so if you plug it off, this will richen the mixture some.

What you discribe about completly *disconnecting* the PCV and leaving the hole open is correct. Under a rich "choked" condition, pulling off the PCV hose will lean-out the mix and speed-up the idle. After the choke is off, pulling this hose will stall the engine. (gets way to lean)

I would check to see if the heat riser valve is open, it should be rotated counter-clockwise untill it stops. (that is, if it's not already stuck solid. Not having a working heat riser valve will mean that the engine takes a few more minutes to warm-up fully.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Dart
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2001 5:19 pm 
Quote:
: Hi
:
: I am new to this this site and hope I can get
: some advice.
:
: I have a 64 Dart 225 with electronic ignition
: which I cannot seem to get the carb
: correctly adjusted. Pro mechanics have
: attempted but have not had any luck either.
: Warm starts and warm days the car is fine
: with the exception of an inconsistant idle
: (idle speed will rise and fall). My main
: problem is cold weather. The car will start
: and run perfectly on fast idle when
: cold. However, putting the car in gear will
: cause the car to stall. The first stop will
: cause the idle to drop (it is still on fast
: idle cam), run rough and stall. Accelerating
: will result in hesitation and will stall
: making turns.
:
: What I have tried: Purchased NOS carb. No
: change. Reset floats as best I could. (I set
: the floats with the Carter carb, on the car)
: I do have a repair manual and have followed
: the instructions. This helped some. Tried
: setting mixture as I have read much about to
: rich/lean. I have never been able to figure
: out how to tell when car is rich/lean? Plugs
: are typically brownish in color and dry.
: Have reset timing to 10 degrees BTDC and I
: do have the vacuum advance connected. Vacuum
: does advance when I hit the gas. (Verified
: with timming light) I do get what appears to
: be a solid stream of gas when I accelerate,
: but I have not worked on any other carbs to
: compare.
: Could the trouble be the choke?? Or maybe
: something else?? I have heard much about
: adjusting the choke. How do I do this? Not
: much to adjust?? Or am I missing something.
:
: Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give
: as much of the symptoms as possible. Any
: advice for me to check/change/adjust would
: be much appreciated as I am desparate!
:
: Thanks!


Hi Everyone

Well, I have managed to fix a carb vacuum leak using tips from this site. My idle is now solid.

However, I seem to have developed a another problem. While driving it this weekend, the car suddenly developed a miss on anything above idle. Very rough running. While looking for something obvious, I disconnected the vacuum advance to the distributor. The rough running and miss were suddenly gone. Reconnected the advance...Rough...disconnected smooth. I don't think I screwed anything...but who knows? Any ideas?

Thank you.

Dave

davejason@aol.com


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2001 5:46 pm 
Sounds like you have vacuum advance "pulling-in" at idle. Do you have a timing light? The vacuum advance should not be "pulling-in" at idle. The idle should not change as you remove / reinstall the hose.
What is the idle RPM? With a stock cam it should be 600 to 800 RPM max. Try turning down the idle and re-timing the car with the vacuum advance disconnected.
DD
Quote:
:
: Well, I have managed to fix a carb vacuum leak
: using tips from this site. My idle is now
: solid.
:
: However, I seem to have developed a another
: problem. While driving it this weekend, the
: car suddenly developed a miss on anything
: above idle. Very rough running. While
: looking for something obvious, I
: disconnected the vacuum advance to the
: distributor. The rough running and miss were
: suddenly gone. Reconnected the
: advance...Rough...disconnected smooth. I
: don't think I screwed anything...but who
: knows? Any ideas?
:
: Thank you.
:
: Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 3:13 pm 
Quote:
: Sounds like you have vacuum advance
: "pulling-in" at idle. Do you have
: a timing light? The vacuum advance should
: not be "pulling-in" at idle. The
: idle should not change as you remove /
: reinstall the hose.
: What is the idle RPM? With a stock cam it
: should be 600 to 800 RPM max. Try turning
: down the idle and re-timing the car with the
: vacuum advance disconnected.
: DD

Hi Doug

Since my last post, I have purchased a tach and re-adjusted the idle. You were right, it was not set correctly. I reset the idle to 550 with lights on. I also adjusted the fast idle by setting the speed to 700 on the lowest fast idle cam step. I re-timed the car to 10 degrees with the vacuum advance disconnected. I do see the advance "jump" when I give the car gas. I also adjusted the mixture. The car appears to have a slight miss between 1k and 2k RPM which clears above 2K and below 1K RPM. (Any ideas on that??) Other than that, car runs OK warm. I need to get another cold start to verify cold operation. Will I need to re-adjust the choke (U link) now that the idle is set correctly? I will let you know my progress.

Thank you.

Dave Reibs

davejason@aol.com


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 Post subject: Hesitation when warm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:49 pm 
Quote:
: Sounds like you have vacuum advance
: "pulling-in" at idle. Do you have
: a timing light? The vacuum advance should
: not be "pulling-in" at idle. The
: idle should not change as you remove /
: reinstall the hose.
: What is the idle RPM? With a stock cam it
: should be 600 to 800 RPM max. Try turning
: down the idle and re-timing the car with the
: vacuum advance disconnected.
: DD


Hi Doug

Just a follow-up...I test drove the car with the changes and I noticed that the car now hesitates from a standstill when warm. It also continues to have a miss at about 1500. I feel like I am going backwards....ugh!

Thanks again...

Dave Reibs


davejason@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: Hesitation when warm
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:09 pm 
Quote:
: Hi Doug
:
: Just a follow-up...I test drove the car with
: the changes and I noticed that the car now
: hesitates from a standstill when warm. It
: also continues to have a miss at about 1500.
: I feel like I am going backwards....ugh!


Sometimes you do "go backwards", just go back to the set-up that worked better and try something else.

Keep playing with it. How does the mechanical advance look? At what RPM does the timing mark start to move with the vacuum advance disconnected?

May-be the carb's accelator pump is not squirting soon enough or the carb is not getting into the main feed circuit soon enough.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: More Info
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 7:44 pm 
Quote:
: Sometimes you do "go backwards", just
: go back to the set-up that worked better and
: try something else.
:
: Keep playing with it. How does the mechanical
: advance look? At what RPM does the timing
: mark start to move with the vacuum advance
: disconnected?
:
: May-be the carb's accelator pump is not
: squirting soon enough or the carb is not
: getting into the main feed circuit soon
: enough.
: DD


Hi Doug

I only had time to give the car a cold (60 degrees!) start today...darn job! LOL

Maybe this info can help?? The car started fine cold and idled at 700 RPM after initial kickdown (Still on fast idle cam). The car missed at idle and missed upon accelerating up to 1500 RPM (not in gear). I pulled the vacuum advance and plugged at the carb and the miss went away. No miss whatsover. Reconnected - miss. Thoughts???

I will get the RPM on the mechanical advance info to you on Thursday.

You mentioned " carb is not
getting into the main feed circuit soon
enough." For the complete idiot...me...what exactly do you mean by that. Is that something I can check/adjust? Can I adjust how quickly the accelerator pump squirts?

Thanks again Doug

I appreciate your patience!

Dave Reibs


davejason@aol.com


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