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Eileen using oil
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29493		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Eileen using oil
After the engine was build the first time it didn't use a drop of oil. We pulled the head and enlarged the combustion cambers some which required breaking down the valves. After reinstalling the head it has started using oil. We reused the valve seals because the looked OK, but I have since heard that they are a one time use only seal and must be replaced if removed.
http://tinyurl.com/2tyz2q

Two questions:
1. have you heard the same thing.
2. I'd like to pressurize the cylinder to change out the seals. I have those tools for that. What tool do I need to remove the retainer?
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Didn't you have a bent push rod awhile back after a hard run?
If so, that valve may have swollen to the point of sticking and possible scoring which could result in a oil leak by tearing up the seal.

I know it is a drag to pull the head but it would be nice to inspect the valve stems and shine that one back up.

I have done what you are planning to do on my sons rig. We just borrowed a spring compressor from out local auto parts store and replaced the seals by filling the cylinder with compressed air and rotating the piston to TDC just to be on the safe side.
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
1. I would not reuse valve stem seals
2. Overhead valve spring compressor

How much oil use are we talking here?

You can also just thread some rope in through the spark plug hole to hold up the valve instead of using compressed air.

Lou
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
depending on your CC temperature, CR, average RPM range and temp of your area, and of course, oil specs, I wouldn't be flipping my wig even with 1 liter of oil every 1000 km
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
The valve spring compressors that you find at places like AutoZone and Advance will do the job. The type that just goes over the spring and has a handwheel you turn to compress the spring. You have to get them on the spring just right, but they do fine when you do.


Air pressure is the way I would do it. Just remember when you put the air in the cylinder the engine will turn till that piston is down at BDC.



If the valve seals are the cause of your oil burning, then there should be some tail-tail signs of it. One thing, it should be smoking. At idle after a start up, when letting off the gas and coasting awaile then returning to idle, oil trials running down the exhaust valve, signs of oil burning on the plugs.



If its been getting run with a lot of detination this will cause oil burning.


If bronze guides, or liners where not used when the head was built its a very good chance the problem is the guides letting the valve move around and cause the seals not to work. Factory cast guides that where knurled, or not resized to fit over size valve stems will be to loose quick.



Jess
Author:  AnotherSix [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Those solid teflon PC seals are very easy to damage during installation.

In the picture the second one from the left looks broken already, and right where they normally have a problem.

It is the top outside shoulder that gets smashed and cracks when pushing them on, even if the proper tool is used. removing any sharp edges from the top of the guide can help, but does not fix the problem.

I have resorted to removing the retaining springs, putting the seals on and then installing the retaining springs.

I would avoid putting this type on a street car if can. Once the guides get a tiny bit loose they are not flexible enough to control the oil. Even if they were not damaged on install the tops often break right off. They really are a race part, in spite of the fact that many run them on the street.

The good news! There are several makes of seals that will fit your guides. Some are a rubber (viton or poly acrylite) with a teflon lip against the stem. These have the same performance but last much longer and have more tolerance for play between the stem and guide.

I don't have any part numbers, but they should be easy enough to find. You will just need to know what your guides are machined to.
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had an adjuster back off and a push rod jump out, but no bend rod. It has been burning oil for a long time. I didn't say anything until now because I didn't want to hear a certain someone say "its those gapless Total Seal rings!!. I told you so!!". I have a strong belief that its not the rings because of when it started burning oil, after the additional head work.
I smokes at startup for sure. It hard to say what its doing while driving, because the back window is tinted and a bit gray to be able to see any smoke. It also difficult to see anything in the small side mirrors.
How much oil is it using? I haven't tracked it, but it seems like I am always putting it in. If I had to guess... maybe 2 quarts every 1000 miles, give or take.
It has bronze guides with 11/32 valve stems. I'll have to call the builder to see what size he cuts the guide tops to.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
That really sounds like just oil from the guides, not that the guides are bad. I'm sure you will find some of the seals broken. It's really not a bad job with the head on. Maybe 2 hours.

I just have a KD tool for that and it works fine, even with some pretty stiff springs.
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Anyone have a picture or a link to a preferred tool for the job? No big hurry, I am likly going to wait until this fall to do the work. I am the busiest I ve ever been in 8 years this summer. (A/C work).
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
bren, you never reported back on the high speed bleeds thing. If the carb has no high speed bleeds because the metering block had no emulsion stages to begin with and you installed a different metering block wich has according to your pictures 3 emulsion stages, you're most likely goin lean when you step on the gas, that hurts times 2 because when you need power and I mean 12,5:1 power, no stoich bullcrap here, you're most likely seeing 15:1 or 14:1 and that would be enough "leaning" to cause silent pinging if you're requiring extra fuel. This can be easily causing your engine to burn a little more oil than normal.

Another thing, when you don't want nobody telling you I told you so you just don't ask or don't need to, there's no starting a question and suddenly dropping the subject ou of reading something you don't wanna read :wink: :lol:
Author:  vornie [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Been reading about oil in alot of these threads and am a bit confused, it was reccomended to us that we use 20w50 in our 1983 petrol slant six 225, but I ve seen a alot of conflicting information on here that has made me think otherwise! - does that sound right, I m worried I may be ruining my beuatiful vehicle! Vornie
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:

Another thing, when you don't want nobody telling you I told you so you just don't ask or don't need to, there's no starting a question and suddenly dropping the subject out of reading something you don't wanna read :wink: :lol:
http://tinyurl.com/ynkktz
I may have read your request for more info and just been so busy that I forgot to get back to you. Or, maybe something else. :wink:

I am not using a different block. I am using the same 390 block that came with it when I bought it new. (the one on the left). I changed out the IAR and replaced the throttle blades with non pierced ones. Other than that its untouched. (less jets, PV, float adjustments, squirters)
If I hit the gas it goes to 12.7 and as RPM climbs it climbs to a max of 13.5
Then it shifts and goes rich, 11.0 for a second and repeats the above. If I let off the gas anytime it goes rich 10.5. I have to avoid nailing the pedal right after a let off or it will go 9.0 and just about die.
I honestly won't have time to work on the car until this fall because I am just so busy working. It drives pretty good right now. I need the car running so I can still tow my son around as this is the only car that I have that has a child car seat.
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:

The good news! There are several makes of seals that will fit your guides. Some are a rubber (viton or poly acrylite) with a teflon lip against the stem. These have the same performance but last much longer and have more tolerance for play between the stem and guide.

I don't have any part numbers, but they should be easy enough to find. You will just need to know what your guides are machined to.
The valve guides are 11/32 x .500
Any suggestions of where to buy them?
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Goodson is the place for cylinder head rebuilding tools and supplies.
See This Webpage for the seals.
DD
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am just getting around to ordering the valve seals. Planning to change them out when I can out the cam. Looks like the #4611 is for the 11/32 stems (if my math is correct).
Its been awhile since Doc's recommendation of Goodson seals. Is there anything better or are they still the best for me.
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