Hey.. I was thinking today that it might be possible to modify a VW CIS (Continuous Injection System) to work with a Slant six..or any other engine for that matter.

The VW system consists of a fuel pump that goes to a fuel distribution block mounted in the air cleaner assembly, there is a vane type airflow meter that is connected to a fuel valve, so as airflow increases the vane moves the fuel valve giving the correct proportion of fuel to that metered air.

The system is pretty flexible as far as how much fuel can be delivered, using a fuel pressure regulator, There are guys with turbos on their Audi's that are making over 250HP at the wheels and still using the factory CIS system. It is a PORT injection system, but the injectors are just sprayers, you could probably mount them all just under the throttle body in a circular pattern and still get good results... the VW/Audi's were 4cyl and 5 cyl engines, so you could not use it to port inject a slant six.

I would think all the parts could be found at a junkyard.


Ken

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Stock 75 Duster 109K. Working on Turbo setup.

You're talking about Bosch K-Jetronic, which was used on even more Volvos ('75-'85) than VWs—also, the Volvo variants of K-Jet are less problematic than the VW versions.

K-Jetronic is a fairly primitive and fiddly system, but less so than its electronic predecessor D-Jetronic, and K-Jet tends to be generally reliable when all components are in good shape. It would be far easier to retrofit the ordinary K-Jet rather than the fully electronically-controlled Ke-Jet (since no ECMs exist for anything remotely approaching the characteristics of a slant-6); the ordinary kind can even be had with provisions for feedback mixture control via an O2 sensor. You'll need a 6-cylinder system (fuel distributor, etc. are different), so your best candidates for parts are V6 Volvos made from 1975 through 1983. This V6 is of 2.8 litres' displacement, which is about 170 CID, so the fuel characteristics are at least close to what a slant-6 needs. Underhood plumbing will be interesting; you'll have to find a place for the fuel distributor and air ducting (air duct sealing is super critical with this system). Other concerns (fuel pump selection and mounting, etc.) are more routine.

There are several decent manuals out there on K-Jet. Suggest you spend some time looking through them to see if this is really what you want to do.

Another option is the Jetronic setup off the 164E series Volvos(73-75). Cool part here is the similar power output and the fact the Volvo had points ignition with an add on trigger for the injectors....easy to adapt to a /6 distributor. Its batchfire though.
I had a 73 164E with 4 speed OD and it was fairly simple to play with and had lots of jump.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Another option is the Jetronic setup off the 164E series Volvos(73-75). Cool part here is the similar power output and the fact the Volvo had points ignition with an add on trigger for the injectors....easy to adapt to a /6 distributor. Its batchfire though.
I had a 73 164E with 4 speed OD and it was fairly simple to play with and had lots of jump.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

That's the dreaded D-Jetronic, first-ever modern-type EFI, introduced in late 1968 and used on Porsches, Volvos, VWs, Mercedes and some other applications (and copycatted, late and poorly, by GM for the '77 EFI 350 Seville).

For its day, it was extremely advanced...but it has several very large disadvantages compared to most anything else one might consider swapping onto a Slant-6. The Manifold Pressure Sensor is not what we think of today as a MAP sensor; it's a highly-application-specific, fist-sized device that is usually found in decrepit condition at this late date. Only source is/was Bosch. Time was, a new MPS cost "only" USD $200. Nowtimes, virtually all of them have a jobber price of USD $1200 or so, which, in Bosch-ese, means "We're not going to scrap the tooling, but we're mothballing it, so if you want one of these you're going to pay us for our hassle". Other components (throttle potswitch, brainbox) likewise tend to be scarce and spendy. The throttle potswitch is a frequent troublemaker. Brainboxes are fairly robust, though they're pretty "dumb" (inflexible, not readily tuneable—about all you can do is insert variable resistors in series with the primary and/or secondary temp sensors to fool the computer into dumping in more fuel.). Temp sensors themselves aren't much of a problem, and neither are injectors. The EFI trigger points in the distributor base are fiddly to set up, but tend to work OK once they're set up.

When this system is in perfect repair, it works OK...kinda...sorta. Driveability and economy are mediocre below full-throttle.

There's nothing wrong with the fuel pump or pintle-type injectors used in D-jet; it's just the control system that's yucky. I have a 164e myself (also with 4spd + OD), but no more D-Jet controls for me, thanks, I'm driving. I bought a fully-programmable, spark-and-fuel, distributorless Canadian-made SDS. Should go well with the high-compression 3.3-litre "B33". You're right, even in stock form (mine started out with twin Stwomboigs!) the B30/M410 combo is torquey and quick.


(Engine out, hence front end flying high)

Maybe fuel distributors and other bits could be sourced from '80s Mercedes, Porsche, or (outside the U.S.)Opel cars. What did the V6 Capris use?

I've thought about using the CIS (K-Jetronic) system before on V8s using junkyard Mercedes bits, but never considered it for the slant. If the sensor plate could be mounted over on the side of the engine opposite the manifolds, it might be workable. I'd consider machining the intake manifold to accept the K-Jet injectors just before the ports. These injectors are little more than a precise orifice, kinda small, although the slant intake manifold might not have enough meat to properly mount them.

The conversion would need mods to the fuel system, as K-Jet needs high pressure. Typically a feed pump in the tank, routed to a main pump inline. A return line is necessary too.

This is a mechanical system, and is pretty reliable. Still, it requires a lot of hardware, without yielding the fine control possible from an EFI setup. I'd consider it a step up from carburetion, but probably a lot of work to install.

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Last one out , turn off the light

I have a pair of k-jets from a ford 2.8 v6
Ford say they make 160 hp, and I have seen some with a "lot" more, so they should supply enough fuel.

They run more pressure than the later electronic setups.

The thing I see as a problem is that the fuel curve is adjusted by the shape of the housing around the air plate thing...
Sooo, you can adjust it to idle nice, and run good at full throttle.
But not anywhere else, without a lot of work...
It could be close enough, I don´t know.

It is very un-tuneable, at least it is a reliable, as long as you don´t get water in the fuel...

It was also used in ford escort turbo cars in the mid 80´s
And volvo turbo´s too.
IIRC you can mix and match parts from the different cars to get something close to what you need.Like a 6 cylinder distributor on a volvo or vw airmeter thingie...

"...IIRC you can mix and match parts from the different cars to get something close to what you need.Like a 6 cylinder distributor on a volvo or vw airmeter thingie..."

Also, I've heard of a V8 or 6 cylinder fuel distributor used to supply extra injectors on radically boosted 4s.
I always felt that there was something to this system that everyone else was missing. It is fairly simple, but as you point out, not so easily tuneable. Still, it has its uses. I wonder how a turbocharged drag car or autocrosser would like a tuned K-Jet?

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Last one out , turn off the light

Should be ok. At least on the drag car.

I don´t know how much fuel it is able to flow, but there are some drilling to do if you want more...

I am trying to make a l-jetronic work on a slant, and it is easyer, but different. It is also a very reliable system, and not too many wires are needed to make it work...

hi why dont you just go to clifford and get the injection kit that they offer it will be worth your time and money insted of going to different junk yards and looking

thanks

'Cause Clifford's system is halfåssed (throttle body injection rather than port), grossly overpriced, and—like most Clifford products—doesn't actually exist until you give them the money, at which point they start to think about maybe proceeding to get going on putting together a system for you...eventually.

Dealing with Clifford's is almost always much more of a pain in the butt (and wallet) than it's worth.

TBI can be a good upgrade over a carb, but not for $2400 and six to "forever" months' wait, thanks. You can do it for 1/20th the cost and have all the parts on hand in just one or two trips to any wrecking yard. Or you can do even better and go to MPFI, which is what this thread's about.

I would not mind a tbi setup either, but when I am doing all that work I might aswell go all the way. And maybe save a few bucks too.
And Clifford scares me!

While on the subject of Volvos...

I wonder how the LH-Jetronic 2.0 would work (that came on the V6 B28 - 2.8L) as far as tuning goes. I know that LH is more tuneable than the K-Jet, but I am unsure by how much. With the LH-Jet system in the 240 series, they used an ignition system designed by Chrysler (for whatever reason), and in the late 240s, 740s, and 940s, they used an EZK ignition system, which was far more worthwhile to have.

It would be interesting to see how that would work... the hard part being able to find such a car with a B28 in it.... they weren't that great of an engine to start with...

~THOR~

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1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Apparently Clifford did build a very short run of port EFI injection manifolds for the slant; I seem to recall a couple photos of one posted here. It appears they decided not to do a repeat run of these.

I hear a lot of complaints about the K-Jetronic's lack of tuneability, but then given where I work, I probably don't hear from the guys who are happy with it. If the fuel curve is not correct out of the box, it seems to be very tough to get it adjusted. If I were to try playing around with one on a slant, I'd probably look for an '80s Mercedes as a donor.

If you wanted to go with a Bosch EFI unit, why not grab one off a BMW slant six? Something like maybe an '80s era BMW 325 or 535? Probably a good bit easier to find than a Volvo V6.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Clifford's set-up requires similar tuning to the Megasquirt set-up. The main difference is they give you a head start, but for start-up and fuel maps you'll be in the exact same boat. The jumping to junkyards isn't really what it was back in the day. Anymore e-bay and Rockauto is a better source for parts, the junkyards are either picked to death or pricey for little things.
As far as pricing goes, the TBI system can be mounted on either the one barrel or two barrel mainfolds with ease. The biggest pain wasn't the injector set-up, but the pump side. We modified the stock fuel tank, it was NOT worth it. By the time I finished getting the sucker to seal it would've been easier the make my own or buy a standard fuel cell.