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Ignition choices
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30199		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Voyonyx [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Ignition choices
Hey all,
Due to my ECU bleeding (see previous post) and getting shocked when adjusting the timing...and well, other things I want to replace the ignition in my /6. I usually do this first in my new cars, but this particular one begged for service in some other areas first.
I plan on an Orange Box ECU, 8 mm wires, an Accel yellow coil, and some Pulstar plugs. DISCLAIMER: I have already decided on Pulstars, based on a fair amount of research and digging around. If you have another preferred plug or an opinion on using stock Champion plugs, you will only be listened to if you have provable evidence. No opinions here!

Anyhow, I know there may be better coils out there, as Accels are hit and miss - if someone can recommend a good coil I'd love it. What I'd also love is a recommendation on distributor caps and rotors - I seem to remember reading a recommendation here, but I can't find it. Something blue.... ;) If I'm better off with a more modern setup (minus EFI), I'd appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction :) .

Secondly, wires. I can't find good wires that are pre-cut (sized). Should I just bite the bullet and make my own 8 mm's, or is there a plug and play alternative? Let me know - thanks!
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Orange Boxes have been junk for some time. They fail much too often and retard the timing at high RPM.

Magnecore is the best choice in wires, but no inexpensive.

The big Accel coils work, but take up lots of room.

The only thing I'll say about Pulstars is they are just another gimmick. No spark plug can create energy. The only think you can do with the energy you put into the ignition system is release it over a longer or shorter period of time. Don't be a sucker.

I spent less than $40 for HEI ignitionand it works great.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
NGK ZFR5N plugs, take it or leave it.

nice to put a face to a name Josh, good job on the HEI conversion.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ignition choices
Quote:
I plan on an Orange Box ECU, 8 mm wires, an Accel yellow coil, and some Pulstar plugs. DISCLAIMER: I have already decided on Pulstars, based on a fair amount of research and digging around. If you have another preferred plug or an opinion on using stock Champion plugs, you will only be listened to if you have provable evidence. No opinions here!

!
Since you have already decided on the Pulstars, and don't want opinions, might I suggest you do comparative testing, and report the results, on this site. Use whatever ign system you desire, then install a set of NGK plugs. Road test the car, keeping precise records of fuel milage. Take it to the track, or dyno, and record the results. Then install the Pulstars, and do the same tests. I'll bet you a steak diner, you see no significant improvement, with the pulstars.
Author:  NCDemon1971 [ Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
:shock: ..... N G K
Author:  rock [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Here is my coil recommendation
Try an MSD or other brand E core coil. NOT another "hot" round coil. The stock Mopar round coil is a fine product in the short run, though. The E cores, as most coils, are very hard to kill. If bought used from a certain online auctioni, they are likely to be good.

As to why E cores are good coils, and the relation of "fire" provision to plugs, some background reading on rise time, saturation, and how the charge is collected and released from coils rewards the time spent. The fire in a plug gap comes from capacitive discharge, not from the plug. The kind of spark and where it enters the cylinder are more important than who made a plug. Rather than fuel a discussion of whose plugs are better, I prefer to analyze spark characteristic and its relation to flame travel and timing. A study of these parameters reduces the universe of most desirable "built" slant six plugs to but a few.

rock
'64d100
Author:  66aCUDA [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Im with Charlie on the NGKs. I have used some of the gimicks and they just dont hold water to NGK.
As for your other info the search button is your friend. Standard Bluestreak and Elechin (sp) MO-3000, HEI, Ignition. will all get you tons of info. The Front page of this site has an Articles section with the info for most of this.
Good Luck,
Frank
Author:  MichaelS [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I used a set of Magna core wires and they fit right out of the box and were not any more than most other good 8mm wire sets. I should see were I got them from it was some online seller but they were dropshipped direct from Magnacore.
Author:  Voyonyx [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Magna core wires it is, and as for the coil, it seems MSD Blaster 2 is the way to go. The info on the cap and rotor was exactly what I couldn't quite remember (and thus couldn't search for ;) ) - thanks!

As for plugs - I did another round of checking and digging, and the reviews for the Pulstars are a bit more mixed now - and what originally got me thinking about them was not the claims for more power, but the actual way in which they supposedly fire and how it would affect flame front speed, size and shape. They supposedly create a corona of plasma, and not a spark. In my mind I was coupling these with the oxyhydrogen system I plan on installing and how that affects the flame front as well (drastically), and thinking it would be a pretty sweet setup.

After some further reading, I do have some concerns about material durability, as now I'm thinking what plasma + platinum equals over the long run ;)

So, for the time being I'm for the long-nose NGK's - I'm going to wait and see how the Pulstars fare over the long term as I like the idea, but don't like the possibility of having a spark plug tip rattling around in my cylinder.

Not that I'm trying to please anyone, but should appease most ;) The only reason I did not want to discuss it in the first place is that I know how...strongly...some on this board feel about certain kinds of spark plugs, and the last thing I wanted to start was a flame war, or skirmish for that matter.

Anyhow, thanks for your input! If you have any more, please send it my way :)
Author:  Voyonyx [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Regarding the Magnecor wires - I'm betting 8mm is what I'm looking for, but would there be any benefit in using 8.5mm? I'm bouncing between Orange Box/Blaster2 and the HEI conversion right now - would the HEI warrant 8.5's?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
8mm is fine. Anything larger is tough to get into the distributor cap. I would rather run the Standard Motor Products LX101 ignition module than the Mopar Orange Box. The LX101 is probably the best direct replacement ignition box going. I have one on the shelf, but I'm running junk yard HEI instead. The HEI is fine even with 7mm wires. You don't need fat wires until you up the firing voltage requirement through increased cylinder pressure.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
The "plasma corona" thing doesn't happen. It's marketeering BS, pure and simple. Pseudoscientific handwaving, nothing more. The Pulstar plugs themselves are from China. :roll: Your choice to use NGKs is a very good one. Make sure to remove the metal ring washers before installation if your head is a '63-'74 item.

Ignition system: HEI upgrade per Josh's or another method. Read this provided link for a ton of info.
Author:  tlrol [ Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Corona Plasma gibberish
Strictly speaking the Pulstar plugs do cause corona and induce a plasma--the air is ionized under the presence of a voltage greater than the breakdown voltage. Most of us choose to call this a "spark."

In other words they are selling...you guessed it, a spark plug. No magic, nothing special (other than the price). Dan is right about the voodoo spark plugs--really a waste of money. I am waiting for a "Dr. Evil Laser Beam" model myself...
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Corona Plasma gibberish
Quote:
Strictly speaking the Pulstar plugs do cause corona and induce a plasma--the air is ionized under the presence of a voltage greater than the breakdown voltage. Most of us choose to call this a "spark."
Yep...if I had been more awake last night, I'd've been clearer, that the corona/plasma thing doesn't happen with the Pulstar plugs to any degree more than with any other plug. This what they're doing is a very old (and very effective) marketeering technique, describing the ordinary in fancy terms to gull people into thinking their product does something nothing else does. This kind of ad can be fun to write; see this light bulb sellsheet. I was laughing the whole time I wrote it — especially the third paragraph — figuring for sure it would get kicked back to my desk with a note saying "Very funny, Stern, now be serious", but instead it got approved. :shock:
Author:  tlrol [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  I liked it...
Clever verbage--read through the language and it looks like a heavy duty light bulb. I myself like to view light bulbs as darkness suckers--once they suck up all that darkness they die and usually look...well, dark. Makes about as much sense as "hole flow" for current flow, or the various spark plug stuff.

Diametrically maximized base...hmmm, scratching head...oh, I see, it fits the round socket!

I like how you made the contact buttons seem special by using their abbrevations from the periodic table...sort of like the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

Always some way to make the pitch--if you are "good" you can tell the truth and make someone believe they are buying something special...
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