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 Post subject: turbos
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 5:47 pm 
Here are some questions for anyone who knows anything about turbochargers. Im putting one on my slant6.

1)How does boost affect your compression

ratio? Is their a formula or chart that

shows at what rate your CR increases when

boost is applied. I want to know what my

CR will be under various boost pressures.

2)Is their a MSD ignition for a slant6 that

incorporates any kind of turbo timer?

I need something that will retard my

timing as the boost increases.

If anyone has experience with turbos I could use some advice. Thanks.

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: turbos
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:31 pm 
Quote:
: Here are some questions for anyone who knows
: anything about turbochargers. Im putting one
: on my slant6.
:
: 1)How does boost affect your compression
: ratio? Is their a formula or chart that
: shows at what rate your CR increases when
: boost is applied. I want to know what my
: CR will be under various boost pressures.


Compression ratio is determined by the mechanical dimensions of the engine. You are probably thinking of pressure ratio. PR is the sum of the atmospheric pressure and the boost pressure divided by the atmospheric pressure. For example if you are running 10 pounds of boost then the pressure ratio would be 1.68 ([14.7+10]/14.7) or a 68% increase in air flow. This means that a 225 CID SL6 would have the same air flow as a 378 CID engine!
:
: 2)Is their a MSD ignition for a slant6 that
: incorporates any kind of turbo timer?
: I need something that will retard my
: timing as the boost increases.
: If anyone has experience with turbos I could
: use some advice. Thanks.

MSD makes three "Boost Timing Masters" that could be used with the SL6 dependent on the ignition you are using. Check out their web site at <A HREF="http://www.msdignition.com">www.msdignition.com</A>.

Have you decided what turbo and what type of exhaust manifold you will be using?

Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: turbos
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 9:53 pm 
Quote:
: Compression ratio is determined by the
: mechanical dimensions of the engine. You are
: probably thinking of pressure ratio. PR is
: the sum of the atmospheric pressure and the
: boost pressure divided by the atmospheric
: pressure. For example if you are running 10
: pounds of boost then the pressure ratio
: would be 1.68 ([14.7+10]/14.7) or a 68%
: increase in air flow. This means that a 225
: CID SL6 would have the same air flow as a
: 378 CID engine!
:
: MSD makes three "Boost Timing
: Masters" that could be used with the
: SL6 dependent on the ignition you are using.
: Check out their web site at
: <A HREF="http://www.msdignition.com">www.msdignition.com</A> .
:
: Have you decided what turbo and what type of
: exhaust manifold you will be using?
:
: Bob D


I am using a Garret off of a 86 LeBaron. I am making a header with a little help from the local go-fast fab shop.Will that MSD work with electronic ignition?

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: turbos
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 7:24 am 
Quote:
: I am using a Garret off of a 86 LeBaron. I am
: making a header with a little help from the
: local go-fast fab shop.Will that MSD work
: with electronic ignition?


The MSD "Universal Boost Timing Master" (P/N MSD-5462) includes a built-in inductive ignition and will work with your existing electronic ignition. Summit sells it for $166. Personally I'd go with the MSD boost timing master made to work with the MSD 6A capacitive ignition. Summit sells this for $180 (P/N MSD-8762). Of course the MSD 6A will cost you an additional $132, but in my opinion the capacitive ignition is well worth the additional money, especially with a turbo.

What size tubes and what material are you using for your header?

Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: turbos
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:33 am 
Quote:
: The MSD "Universal Boost Timing
: Master" (P/N MSD-5462) includes a
: built-in inductive ignition and will work
: with your existing electronic ignition.
: Summit sells it for $166. Personally I'd go
: with the MSD boost timing master made to
: work with the MSD 6A capacitive ignition.
: Summit sells this for $180 (P/N MSD-8762).
: Of course the MSD 6A will cost you an
: additional $132, but in my opinion the
: capacitive ignition is well worth the
: additional money, especially with a turbo.
:
: What size tubes and what material are you using
: for your header?
:
: Bob D


I am using 1 1/2" primary tubes and running cylinders 1-3 into one 2 1/2" collector and 4-6 into another collector, then merging both collectors into one that will mate with the turbo.Thanks for the advice on the ignition, Im not as well versed in ignition technology as i would like to be.
Max

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: turbos
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 9:56 am 
Quote:
: Here are some questions for anyone who knows
: anything about turbochargers. Im putting one
: on my slant6. . .


We need to get madmax hooked-up with Andrew!

Check out his set-up at:
<A HREF="http://home.earthlink.net/~mrdartgt/index.html">http://home.earthlink.net/~mrdartgt/index.html</A>

Andrew is a lucky guy having access to all that sheetmetal fab. equipment. As he has shown us, now it's a "what can you think of next" (and have time for) development effort.
DD


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 Post subject: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 9:48 pm 
The MSD 6BTW ignition module incorporates the 6A and the boost retard in one box. I think you can find it a JEGS and PAW.

Mike

MAndreas@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:55 am 
Quote:
: The MSD 6BTW ignition module incorporates the
: 6A and the boost retard in one box. I think
: you can find it a JEGS and PAW.
:
: Mike


to correct this, its called MSD 6 BTM ...and you can use it with your mopar ignition...

i have one in my Duster...

well in Finland, these are not that "hip" because you can get more accurate engine managenent systems...like halltech or finnish hestec...which is very good...takes care of many problems, and especially you can get really big improvement in hp and in torque...compared to these MSD`s etc...ok its more expensive...too.

so if you want to use a boost retard system, you could actually get it by a modified distributor...how?

you simply get the vacuum advance system of a distributor which can advance and retard , some vw, bmw and other engines have this...and you have to get the distributor work so that it can move in both ways...

hope this helps...sorry my bad english...


http://homepage.mac.com/jyrie
jyri.eramaa@jwt.fi


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 3:36 pm 
Quote:
: The MSD 6BTW ignition module incorporates the
: 6A and the boost retard in one box. I think
: you can find it a JEGS and PAW.
: Mike


You're right I had overlooked the MSD BTM. However, there are a few reasons that you might still want the separate units. Obviously, if you already have a MSD ignition, but also because you could probably quite easily find an inexpensive used MSD box. I don't think that I've ever been to a swap meet where I haven't seen at least one for $25 to $50 (admittedly there is some risk here). The most compelling reason though might be the fact that if anything happens to the MSD BTM you are out $320 instead of either the price of the MSD box or the separate boost controller ($180). This is kind of the same reason that I don't think it's a good idea to buy a single unit VCR/TV. Just something to think about.

Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 3:58 pm 
I run the msd btm with my mopar chrome ecu and a msd coil. I have had no problems with this setup. I have too tell you that if you are going for a high preformance engine the turbo from the 2.2 liter will be too small. The most I could get out of mine was 10 lbs and that was spinning it way too fast and I toasted one turbo like that. I have a .63 a/r turbo from a thunder bird on mine now and 15lbs is no problem for it. It does take longer to spool but I gained 5 mph and 6 tenths in the 1/4 mile with the change. I went 14.50 @ 95 mph at 10 lbs of boost with out doing anything to the engine, I think I can go faster with it. Some think that it should have blown up by now, I think it is just a strong little engine that can surprise all of us!! If you looked at my site you will see my header that I just put on I would like to see were you plan on placing the turbo! Are you going to intercool it ,and what type of car is it? If there are any questions I will help where I can!

andrew wagner
Quote:
:
: to correct this, its called MSD 6 BTM ...and
: you can use it with your mopar ignition...
:
: i have one in my Duster...
:
: well in Finland, these are not that
: "hip" because you can get more
: accurate engine managenent systems...like
: halltech or finnish hestec...which is very
: good...takes care of many problems, and
: especially you can get really big
: improvement in hp and in torque...compared
: to these MSD`s etc...ok its more
: expensive...too.
:
: so if you want to use a boost retard system,
: you could actually get it by a modified
: distributor...how?
:
: you simply get the vacuum advance system of a
: distributor which can advance and retard ,
: some vw, bmw and other engines have
: this...and you have to get the distributor
: work so that it can move in both ways...
:
: hope this helps...sorry my bad english...


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:06 pm 
Quote:
: I run the msd btm with my mopar chrome ecu and
: a msd coil. I have had no problems with this
: setup. I have too tell you that if you are
: going for a high preformance engine the
: turbo from the 2.2 liter will be too small.
: The most I could get out of mine was 10 lbs
: and that was spinning it way too fast and I
: toasted one turbo like that. I have a .63
: a/r turbo from a thunder bird on mine now
: and 15lbs is no problem for it. It does take
: longer to spool but I gained 5 mph and 6
: tenths in the 1/4 mile with the change. I
: went 14.50 @ 95 mph at 10 lbs of boost with
: out doing anything to the engine, I think I
: can go faster with it. Some think that it
: should have blown up by now, I think it is
: just a strong little engine that can
: surprise all of us!! If you looked at my
: site you will see my header that I just put
: on I would like to see were you plan on
: placing the turbo! Are you going to
: intercool it ,and what type of car is it? If
: there are any questions I will help where I
: can!
:
: andrew wagner

would it make any difference if it came from a 2.5? The thunderbirds are only a 2.3 4 cylinder, right? Im half ashamed to admit but I didnt take a close look at what the LeBeron had in it.When you say you gained in th 1/4 mile, was that verses a small turbo or verses a stock SL6? Also, where did you pick up your supply(pressure) line for the antifreeze? Thanks for offering to help. You'll probably be hearing alot from me.By the way the car is a 1968 Barracuda Coupe. Ill try to e-mail some pictures of what i have done to your site. Yes i plan to intercool it, Im trying to figure out how to place the hoses and tubing so I dont have to cut the radiator support.

MadMax

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:53 pm 
Quote:
: would it make any difference if it came from a
: 2.5? The thunderbirds are only a 2.3 4
: cylinder, right? Im half ashamed to admit
: but I didnt take a close look at what the
: LeBeron had in it.When you say you gained in
: th 1/4 mile, was that verses a small turbo
: or verses a stock SL6? Also, where did you
: pick up your supply(pressure) line for the
: antifreeze? Thanks for offering to help.
: You'll probably be hearing alot from me.By
: the way the car is a 1968 Barracuda Coupe.
: Ill try to e-mail some pictures of what i
: have done to your site. Yes i plan to
: intercool it, Im trying to figure out how to
: place the hoses and tubing so I dont have to
: cut the radiator support.
:
: MadMax


Would you also post the pictures here? I think Doug Dutra would help you with that.
Thanks, Bob D



BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: TURBO and VIDEO
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:35 pm 
Quote:
: I run the msd btm with my mopar chrome ecu and
: a msd coil. I have had no problems with this
: setup. I have too tell you that if you are
: going for a high preformance engine the
: turbo from the 2.2 liter will be too small.
: The most I could get out of mine was 10 lbs
: and that was spinning it way too fast and I
: toasted one turbo like that. I have a .63
: a/r turbo from a thunder bird on mine now
: and 15lbs is no problem for it. It does take
: longer to spool but I gained 5 mph and 6
: tenths in the 1/4 mile with the change. I
: went 14.50 @ 95 mph at 10 lbs of boost with
: out doing anything to the engine, I think I
: can go faster with it. Some think that it
: should have blown up by now, I think it is
: just a strong little engine that can
: surprise all of us!! If you looked at my
: site you will see my header that I just put
: on I would like to see were you plan on
: placing the turbo! Are you going to
: intercool it ,and what type of car is it? If
: there are any questions I will help where I
: can!
:
: andrew wagner


Andrew,
: It's always good to hear of your experiences
: with the turbo. I've often thought that a
: turbo designed for 2.2L would not be right
: for 3.8L (225 CID). Have you ever considered
: the stock 3.8L Buick turbo? These are
: sometimes available when those folks upgrade
: their turbo. By the way if you want to see
: (and hear) what a turbo charged 3.8L Buick
: can do check out
: <A HREF="http://www.gnttype.org/avtest/WHEELY.MP ... ELY.MPG</A> !
: I agree with you on the engine durability issue
: as well. Many don't realize that you can
: double an engines output with a turbo,
: without seriously increasing engine loads,
: as long as rpm is not increased beyond
: normal safe limits and detonation is
: controlled.
:
: Bob D


BBobbias@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: MSD 6 BTW
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:35 pm 
Quote:
: Would you also post the pictures here? I think
: Doug Dutra would help you with that.
: Thanks, Bob D


sure, how do i do it?

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: TURBO and VIDEO
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:41 pm 
Quote:
: Andrew,

wheres a good place to look for a 3.8 turbo? i looked all over the internet for a 3.8 and was unsuccsesful in finding one. MadMax

madmax6995@hotmail.com


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