For a daily driver, get front and rear anti-sway bars, good shocks and tires.
The car does not need a lot of extra power if you never have to slow down for the corners!
DD
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Engine Upgrade Inquiry: Finding balance for a daily driver. |
I'm re-inheriting my 1964 V-100 Valiant from my father after it has sat more or less for five years. It runs fine using a 225 six out of a '76 Dodge van. (We don't talk about what happened to the original 170.) Some details on what it currently has: •225 Completely stripped and rebuilt in 2000. •1 Barrel Carter Carb. •Manual steering box. •Manual disc brake conversion from Magnum Force in 2006 •Rebuilt front suspension in 2006 •1973 Dart 7 1/4 axle installed in 2006 I want to ditch my current daily driver (2003 Neon) and bring the Valiant back into daily use, but I would like some advice on giving the car a little more go without making it impractical for daily city driving. Here are my proposed modifications: •Under dash air-conditioning. (Hey, it's Florida.) •Electrical upgrade so the radio doesn't turn off every time I hit the brakes. •Electronic Ignition •Electric choke •Super-Six •Dutra Duals The last one is where I really need some help. I'll be searching through the forum as I can see there are plenty of tips for upgrading. I'm sure it's been covered plenty of times. Eventually I'd like to make the six into something that could be raced, but my plan for the next few years is to give it some pep without absolutely killing the mileage. Anyway, my question is this: Are any of the things I listed wastes of time and/or are there other recommended upgrades I'm missing? I'd like to be as efficient and practical as possible with my upgrades to build a reliable daily driver. Any quick tips, links or crescent wrenches you'd like to throw at me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! And thank you for having this forum and sharing your knowledge. I have a feeling I'll be here a lot. Chuck |
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| Author: | Doc [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
For a daily driver, get front and rear anti-sway bars, good shocks and tires. The car does not need a lot of extra power if you never have to slow down for the corners! DD |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:21 pm ] |
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Welcome! Is this an auto trans or manual? What are your mileage and performance (1/4 mile, say) goals? I think I have a flavor for your budget constraints, but you might map those out a bit more too. You can make about 180-220 HP fairly easily and still have stock or better economy. 22-24 MPG is realistic for an auto trans and 24-26 for a manual. Best, Lou |
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:28 pm ] |
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Thanks! Those are both good ideas. Here's some more info: It's a Torqueflite 3 speed pushbutton that gets about 22 miles to the gallon now. It was bored .30 over when the 225 was rebuilt, at least, that's the claim of the guy that rebuilt the engine for me. Mileage goals would be somewhere around 18 MPG ideally. 1/4 mile times I really have no goals as of yet, but I'd obviously like to get the most power I can while having a car that can tolerate rush hour traffic. Budget is pretty slim, but I'm looking at about 2 grand for the air conditioning and maybe another grand or two in drivetrain upgrades. The body and interior are what really need a lot of work in this car though. As for anti-sway bars, would those have to be custom made or are they available somewhere? Taking corners would be a wonderful thing. Thanks again for you time and advice! |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:43 pm ] |
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My car is allot heavier, 74 Swinger so......I am running a 1 7/8 Hellwig bar on the front, available from Summit racing and 5 leaf rear springs from ESPO Springs.com. It made a huge improvement. Also running 7" wide rims and 60 series tires, P215 front and P235 rear. They also help keep the car from rolling. Feels good on country back roads at 50 to 55 mph. Very stable and steady, especially on ice and snow. Doug is right, you get great mileage if you don't have to slow down.  
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:15 pm ] |
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I checked on summit.com and it looks like they have some by Addco that would work with my year. Looks like the Hellwig is only for GMC vehicles. Did you have to make any special modifications with yours? The Addcos look pretty easy to install. I like easy. The rear end has the leaf springs from the 1973 Dart, but I just had shackles put on them to give it some extra stiffness. A sway bar in the back probably wouldn't hurt either though. Summit has a 3/4" and a 7/8" rear set up. Is there a dramatic difference between the two sizes? |
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| Author: | robertob [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm ] |
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Rear swaybars on a leaf-spring car are definitely a matter of opinion. I had them on one '64 Dart that i owned (with the original 4-leaf springs) and did not have them on the other '64 Dart with 5-leaf springs from a later Valiant. I preferred the car with stiffer springs and no swaybar. The front swaybar is not optional. Quote: I checked on summit.com and it looks like they have some by Addco that would work with my year. Looks like the Hellwig is only for GMC vehicles. Did you have to make any special modifications with yours? The Addcos look pretty easy to install. I like easy.
The rear end has the leaf springs from the 1973 Dart, but I just had shackles put on them to give it some extra stiffness. A sway bar in the back probably wouldn't hurt either though. Summit has a 3/4" and a 7/8" rear set up. Is there a dramatic difference between the two sizes? |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:56 pm ] |
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Summit has the Helwig for Dart, you just have to call them. Look on the Helwig site and give them the part number. The big bar in the front is great and no modifications were required. I also prefer the stiffer 5 leaf springs in the back. |
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:58 pm ] |
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Quote:
The front swaybar is not optional.
I guess I'd better get a front sway bar then!  Yeah, my 64 does tend to have a lot of roll in the corners. I'll definitely beef that up with a bar once it's not eleventy million degrees outside and there isn't a tropical storm sitting on my doorstep.
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:04 am ] |
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Bang for your buck, wheels and tires, shocks, and a front sway bar do a whole lot for enjoyable driving. You already have discs, which is great. Looks like you have some 15" rims on there? What width? I highly recommend the Edelbrock IAS shocks. Great handling and better ride than stock. Front sway bar from Addco will work, but may require some welding on the mounts unless they have changed the marginal design. Guessing your prefs and experience, here's a good motor/trans buildup: - large valves (1.70/1.44) from engnbldr on ebay (still?) and good porting job, with 340 valve springs or equivalent, mill 0.100" off deck for 9:1 compression - $800-1200 - Erson 280 int/270 exh duration cam, 0.465" lift - $150 with lifters - 2600-3000 RPM stall converter from Midwest or PTC or Continental or Edge Racing - $400 - recurve distributor (more info later) - TIME - pertronix, HEI, or other electronic ignition - $40-80 - Offenhauser 4bbl intake with adapter plate and Holley 500 CFM 2bbl carb (2300 series aftermarket) w/elec choke - $400- 500 - Port out stock exh manifold and run 2.25" exh all the way back, or get Dutra Duals and run 2 X 2" into a Y-pipe and single 2.5" from the trans X-member back - $200-500 - Put O2 sensor in exhaust headpipe and Sunpro gauge under dash - $50-100 This will really wake your car up and still get you over 20 MPG, maybe more than now. Tuning will be made MUCH easier with the O2 sensor. I would also advise you to visit Charlie Schmid in Ocala, FL if not too far away. He will fill your head with ideas and might help you get started. That's my 2 cents for now... Lou |
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:03 am ] |
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Lou, you're a hero! That's exactly what I needed. A few more bits of info on my car... •Wheels are American Racing 15x7". I can't recall the tire size at the moment, but I do recall it was smaller than I'd like because there were some rubbing issues due to the crappy suspension and torsion bars being all out of whack. That is being fixed now, and I'd have pictures if I wasn't 300 miles from the car. •Currently there's a 2.5 inch pipe coming off the stock manifold. It was a replacement job done about seven years ago. I had wanted duals, but the muffler guy said it was impossible on these cars. I find that unlikely. Long story short, I let my dad keep it as an extra car when I moved to Gainesville, and now he wants to get it back to me, so it's having some work done to make it drivable again. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware that he was changing out the shock absorbers (which were new two years ago) and replaced them with stock shocks. I'll have to have those beefed up again later. That other stuff is great and I'll definitely be putting this list to good use. I met Charlie briefly a few years ago when I put the discs on. I've been getting back in contact with him now that I'm less than an hour away. Once the car is up here, he has kindly offered to give me some pointers. Thanks again, Lou. this list has totally made my day. |
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:17 am ] |
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Also, here is the sway bar I'm looking at. According to the instructions, there's no welding required. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku |
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| Author: | slantvaliant [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine Upgrade Inquiry: Finding balance for a daily driv |
Quote: ... I would like some advice on giving the car a little more go without making it impractical for daily city driving.
Your car and your goals are similar to my own. So, they must be quite reasonable.  Quote: •Under dash air-conditioning. (Hey, it's Florida.)
Yep. I'm in Texas, and sweating on the way home is not a good thing. I do think your $2K number is high. Even with a good new compressor, you should be able to cut that by half or moreQuote: •Electrical upgrade so the radio doesn't turn off every time I hit the brakes.
When braking do you really need the radio?  Just kidding, electrics need to work correcctly. We mustn't let the smoke out. Quote: •Electronic Ignition
Absolutely! I went with HEI and LOVE not having to adjust points.I would add this: Look long and hard at the seabelt situation. Seriously consider upgrading whatever is there. I like at least a good three point setup, anchored well. I would also recommend moving that way up the priority list. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:09 am ] |
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Glad to be of help. That sway bar is what I used on my '64 Dart for 10 yrs. It will work fine, but mounts are a bit cheesy. Consider bolting them on, then putting some welds on to keep them from flexing. I welded mine up and gusseted after one weekend of road course use caused the mounts to bend a little. I just replaced mine with a lightweight custom tubular 1.25" bar. Not worth the trouble for what you want. Ditto on the seatbelts. A great tire size for handling is 225/50-15 and nice stickies are available (Yokohama AVS100s are nice, among others). For a bit cushier ride and/or larger diameter, go for 215/60-15 or 215/65-15. Lou |
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| Author: | armyofchuckness [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Engine Upgrade Inquiry: Finding balance for a daily driv |
Quote: I do think your $2K number is high.
It actually is. I've found a place called Classic Auto Air that has facilities in Richland, Texas and Tampa, Florida. They have an under-dash system for $895, but it's another $800 to get them to install it. I considered doing it myself, but I'm afraid that would be a good way to break things. I honestly have no idea how difficult it would be though.The seatbelts I upgraded to new lapbelts when I got the car, but a three point harness is definitely in the works. Is there a recommended belt out of a particular car, or should I just buy a J.C. Whitney universal deal? At least with the V-100, I have a post to mount things to. I actually just read that HEI how-to and it sounds like something I might be able to tackle. I really don't have much in the tool world, and with my apartment lifestyle, repairs have to be quick and inconspicuous. Now I just need to visit the local wrecking yards and figure out where all these parts are located. The article helps, but I am embarrassingly inexperienced building engines that aren't 1/25 scale and made of plastic.  I'll learn quick though.Thanks for the sway bar tip, Lou. I'll see if I can find someone around here with a welder when I get the bar. Never know when the Valiant will need a little time off the blacktop.  Good to know for the tires too. My tire knowledge consists of "whitewall," "blackwall" and "raised white letter." (I'd like to get the latter.)Thanks again, Lou. You've really helped save me some serious headaches. |
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