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| Retrotek Speed ThrottleBody EFI System https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30983 |
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| Author: | Mike_64_Valiant [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Retrotek Speed ThrottleBody EFI System |
What do you guys think about this setup? powerinjection1 I know your first thoughts are probably that its expensive, but I would be willing to pay alittle more in order to not have a massive brain aneurism trying to tune the Mega squirt setups. I don't have tons of time for all the tuning and I need something reliable for long road trips. I also like the fact that they are ready for up to 15lbs of boost with no other mods just use the 2Bar MAP sensor instead of the 1Bar. I did email them and asked about using the system with a Turbo application with more than the 15lbs of boost according to their website the system would require a 3Bar MAP sensor and they said. "We do not provide 3 bar maps or do systems higher than 15lbs of boost. The system can do it but it would need professional tuning to achieve the results expected." Because they suggest only up to 15lbs boost I am rethinking a turbo and going with a Supercharger and Methanol Injection more than likely. I also asked if the system is compatable with Methanol Injection and they said "it has yet to be tested". But I don't see any reason why it would not. work. |
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:46 pm ] |
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I was introduced to this kit in the the September 2008 issue of Mopar Muscle (pages 44-53). They installed it on a 1975 Dodge Dart Sport that started out as a budget slant six car they bought for $300.00. They added a rear wing and did some clean up to it and it only have like $900.00 into it! Now they swapped in a 360 and a 4-speed and larger rear end. Anyways they added the system and made a believer out of me. I was thining of ordering the kit. For a bolt on kit it is a very reasonable price. Anyone want a 1968 Plymouth GTX 4-speed Dana project car missing its original drivetrain? |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:59 pm ] |
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Well, most of the guys working on this forum or on a slant six has a tight budget that is why they run the megasquirt program. However, I want to warn you that the fuel map looks very similar to mine in the respect that you have to manually or hotkey the richen/leaning of the fuel to get a desired fuel map. There is also megalogviewer which will read your recorded datalog and adjust the fuel map accordingly. That all being said I would invest in something that would've gave me a better head start. The megasquirt is a pain untill you just dive in which isn't exactly comfortable on a boosted motor that you're investing a couple thousand in to build. So, my suggestion is to go ahead and do you homework and invest in these guys if you can afford it. However, I would simply buy the ECU and put the rest together myself. If you read through what I did to my vehicle you'll see that I had to rework my gas tank which took a lot of work, more than adapting a throttle body onto a manifold. The other thing is you'll probably want to run larger fuel lines which is also what I did and was a complete pain. One last thing is I would stick with a turbocharger. The supercharger has some down falls like the fact your always running x pounds of boost with a roots, even sitting in traffic and difficult to intercool. The intercooler will be a much better investment than a injection system for the convience alone. Last don't get hung up on trying to run a lot of boost because that doen't always mean your making more power. A guage will read 20lbs of boost put if your cam or valves aren't letting it in you may only be getting 10lbs of boost in the cylinder and creating a lot of heat for nothing. |
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| Author: | CARS [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:11 pm ] |
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Quote: Anyone want a 1968 Plymouth GTX 4-speed Dana project car missing its original drivetrain?
PM me with some details and I will find a good home for your GTX
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:40 am ] |
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If you are going to spend that much, please go ahead and do port EFI. It will not be much more and will run better, esp with boost. Looks like their powerinjection2 would work well. Lou |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Retrotek Speed ThrottleBody EFI System |
Quote: What do you guys think about this setup?
As you may be aware, I work for a Megasquirt seller, but here is my take on your questions about the system.powerinjection1 I know your first thoughts are probably that its expensive, but I would be willing to pay alittle more in order to not have a massive brain aneurism trying to tune the Mega squirt setups. I don't have tons of time for all the tuning and I need something reliable for long road trips. I also like the fact that they are ready for up to 15lbs of boost with no other mods just use the 2Bar MAP sensor instead of the 1Bar. 1. I haven't taken a look at their tuning software, so I don't know how the ease of tuning compares between the two. But there is no getting around needing to tune it. 2. I haven't seen a Retrotek throttle body in action, but I have seen another throttle body with side-mounted injectors on a dyno and it had fuel distribution issues. I'd definitely go with the port injected system over the throttle body injected one. 3. Not all injectors are compatible with methanol, so I can't blame them for hedging that one. 4. On a turbo slant six, professional tuning is a good idea whether you're running 10 psi or 20. 5. I don't see any information suggesting the Retrotek system controls timing. |
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| Author: | daniel_depetro [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:27 pm ] |
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Quote: PM me with some details and I will find a good home for your GTX
Check it out by clicking this: 1968 GTX
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| Author: | Mike_64_Valiant [ Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:02 pm ] |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:26 am ] |
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I took a look through the instructions on the Retrotek system and a couple other points, both good and bad, popped up. 1. It can control the ignition timing, if you use a GM 7 or 8 pin HEI module. (I'm running a similar setup with my Megasquirt.) I would have it control the timing, as there's a lot of potential horsepower and drivability gains from dialing in the timing. 2. The cutaway view shows the injectors are located above the throttle blades. That's an improvement over the TBI systems I had looked at, which tried to inject fuel below the blades. Still, I'd be interested if they shared their test data on how the fuel distribution worked. On a turbo or supercharged application, good fuel distribution is more important, not less. 3. The Retrotek system does not use an air intake temperature sensor. This gives it no ability to compensate for differences in intercooler effectiveness or other outside factors that influence the air density. 4. Overall, it looks like a fairly complete turn key package. |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:38 pm ] |
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Matt has essentially done the homework for you (or at least for me). I actually suggested this system to my uncle since he is up in the air over F.A.S.T. or not. However, this is my only opinion about the complete pacakge is for the supercharger (roots especially) would to get the computer and wiring and to skip their TB setup. I believe that the m90's have a 90 deg elbow and than the TB, which you would have to mount onto your "custom" intake. Than you might as well do port with the fuel rail and whole shubang. For a turbo I would ge the complete system, even though the TB and stuff is the easiest part of the build, it would be nice and clean looking to cimply mount it all on an Offy. |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:04 am ] |
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The only forced induction I'd use this system on is a supercharger with no intercooling. The lack of an air temperature system is going to really be a bad idea on a turbo car or an intercooled supercharger. Weather and speed can have a huge effect on the intake temperatures when you have an intercooler up front, and Retrotek's ECU has no way of correcting for that. I have serious doubts that you could ever get this correctly tuned for an intercooled turbo engine, self learning or not. |
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| Author: | sandy in BC [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:12 am ] |
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Other than processer speed I dont see this as an improvement over GM TBI. Both are self learning. |
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| Author: | runvs_826 [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:37 pm ] |
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Quote: Other than processer speed I dont see this as an improvement over GM TBI. Both are self learning.
More info please!
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:28 pm ] |
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On the other hand, a self learning system with a wideband O2 sensor can learn a lot faster than one with a narrowband. (Curious point of trivia: Many GM TBI systems don't have an air temperature sensor, either. However, their higher performance systems like the TPI used them.) They had a review of a Retrotek system in the newest Hot Rod. It ran better than their carbed baseline, but it seems like their tuning aids set the thing to run pretty far on the rich side. They noted that it only ran in the 14.0:1 range after they had someone hand tune it, and it had been running richer before. It evidently did start up without too much hassle, but once you get it running you'll definitely want to bring it to a dyno shop for some proper tuning. |
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