i have a 1966 dodge dart, 3-speed on the column with a 170 slant six, when i purchased it, i planned to drive it to school and back, which is twice a week, and to church on sundays. and then to rebuild the engine in september when my financial aid comes in for the fall semester, however, i believe i have a blown head gasket as of today, i have not look at it good yet, as i have a test i have to study for. but out of nowere it wouldnt gain any speed, no matter the gear (well, it would, but very slowly) and when i stopped the car at the light, it shut off, wouldnt restart until i let it cool for 15 minutes or so, then i drove it just to the nearest store, shut it off, popped the hood, and i had some white smoke coming from the top of the valve cover where you put in the oil, and from the overflow hose at the top of the radiator, i check the oil and it was so thin it was just dripping of the dipstick, so im assuming there is water in the oil, as it had a recent oil change using 20w50 and a quart of lucas. so it should not have been that thin, unless thinned by water (yes i understand the two dont mix, technically)


long story short..... i would like to get an engine to put in the dart until i can rebuild the original in september. im on a tight budget, and found a couple 225's for sale one is from a 73 dart, is already pulled so i cant see/hear it run, the other is from a piece of equipment the year is unknown but seems to be from the 70's, looks to be in great shape, and i can see it run as its still in the equipment.. when the time comes and i put the original back in, i will most liklely resell the 225, unless i truly fall in love with it....

question here is, with this engine go right in? or do i need another k-member and or other parts? will it bolt to my trans? i cant seem to find any 170's locally. and i need this all to happen pretty much as soon as i possibly can.


thanks for any help and input

_________________
1966 Dodge Dart

Your oil would look like peanut butter if it mixed with coolant, why don't you just replace the head gasket?

it actually just water, i check it pretty much daily, but i have not put coolent in yet, because i just got this car not long ago and wanted to see if it had leaks ect before using coolent, i DIDNT do this before and waisted money on coolent before i found it had a medium sized leak....

well, i can consider just replacing the head gasket, but i dont know for sure thats the problem, and i am going to purchased another engine for temporary use in a couple months anyway. if its the head gasket, do i have to have the heads checked out like you do with these newish aluminum cars? or with it being an old, more durable motor, can i just replace the gasket and thats that?

see, this 170 has some pretty low compression anyway, part of why i was going to rebuild it in a few months..... but givin the tight budget and having a time frame, im open to idea's, such as this.

_________________
1966 Dodge Dart

Well, I fully understand being a student with no time or money to maintain an older car. I and my family lived on student financial aid for over ten years. That being said, replacing a head gasket is much cheaper and easier than an entire motor swap. Here are my recommendations:

(1) Drain the oil and change the oil filter. Use 5W-30 oil and a Napa Gold filter. You really are doing no good for your motor using such thick oil AND an oil additive. Straight 5W-30 should be fine. Do you have any idea what your hot and cold oil pressure is?

(2) Do a compression check. Compression gauges and neutral start switches (to crank the engine remotely without a friend) are fairly cheap. This will tell you if you have a cracked head or blown head gasket. If your compression is good, then you might be able to just get a later cylinder head rebuilt and install it instead of a whole engine.

(3) A blown head gasket usually manifest as copious amounts of white smoke out the tailpipe and bubbles in the coolant. Smoke coming out of the oil fill cap hole on the valve cover is typically blow-by in the crankcase. I recommend replacing the PCV valve and doing a valve adjustment.

This problem could be something as simple as a failed thermostat sticking closed and causing overheating of the motor which boiled all the radiator fluid out while you were driving. Did you notice the engine temp at the time the engine stalled?


EDIT: I see you just added that you run straight water in the cooling system. That might be the problem right there, and it might have lead to you blowing an otherwise good head gasket. The factory recommends putting a mix of water and coolant in the motor for a reason- the system is designed to operate on such a mixture. Straight water does not have the heat transference and heat absorption properties necessary to properly cool your motor. The boiling point of straight water is too low for your cooling system and will cause exactly the symptoms you describe, i.e. overheating.

Drain what is left in your cooling system, fill it with properly mixed coolant, drain your oil and put the right weight in with NO additives (that would be 5W-30, no additives). And try again. Always follow manufacturer recommendations on things like radiator fluid. I also recommend you get at least the glove box owner's manual for the car. It would be even better if you get the factory service manual. Read them and do what they say.

Not to be too critical, but your approach is penny-wise but pound-foolish. You are willing to spend the money and time swapping a motor but not making sure that you actually have to. You don't want to put coolant in your engine when you know that coolant is required yet you are willing to do a motor swap without verifying that anything is wrong with the motor you have. Slow down, do correct maintenance and diagnostics. A jug of antifreeze costs far less in money and effort than a motor swap.

I would also recommend that you adjust the valves and check the condition of the points and condenser. Simply because those are basic maintenance items that have a big effect on how the motor runs. Your low compression might just be misadjusted valves.

not arguing, just clarifying, please dont read this wrong,

the reason i ran it thick like this, was because this is a very high mileage engine (number unknown, but seems to have been a daily driver from day one, and the previous owners i have talked to all stated that they did not rebuild the engine, so it may have never been rebuilt in 45 years) and its summer in florida, was 99* yesterday at one point. and i have always ran lucas and never had a problem,

so, with that, you still suggest 5w-30? again, not arguing, just making sure i fully understand, thats all.

it has no thermostat, i purchased one but have not been able to put in it yet, not sure how bad that is, i didnt think it was good obviously, its there for a reason, but i thought a couple days without it wouldnt be a big deal. the PO took the old one out because it stuck and didnt put a new one in, he said that was a very recent event.... having second thoughts on this now, you learn from mistakes, but sometimes thats a vary costly lesson....

it had very low compression already, which is why i was going to rebuild in sept.. giving that knowledge, not sure what new to look for.

sorry if this comes off with the wrong emotion behind it, sometimes text just dont convey what your saying.

_________________
1966 Dodge Dart

If it were me, I would get a valve cover gasket then pull-off the valve cover, re-torque the head, re-adjust the valve lash, (cold) change the oil and then see if the engine starts and runs.
DD

Yup. Exactly.
If it runs, I would replace the thermostat (use the correct factory temp rating) and fill the cooling system with a proper mixture of coolant and water. I would then restart the motor, let it warm up, and set the valve lash.

Yes, I do recommend 5W-30. I live in Washington State, on the other corner of the lower 48 from you, but I run 5W-30 in all my family's vehicles winter and summer. We get temps into the 100s here too. I have never had a problem with running 5W-30.

You need to get some more information about the condition of your engine before you presume it is worn out. Install an oil pressure gauge, vacuum gauge, and do a compression check. If the oil pressure and compression are good, then you don't need a rebuild. Even if they aren't good, it might be a simple fix like rebuilding the oil pump or rolling in new bearings. On a slant six the valve lash has a dramatic effect on how the motor runs and performs.

Again, I strongly recommend you do a basic tune-up on the car and fill the motor with the proper levels and types of fluid and then do some diagnostics before you assume you need to run super thick oil or get a different engine.

valve lash? im not familiar with this... what is it, and how do i set it,

i can do another oil change *sigh*, however, i just did a tune-up, except the distributor cap (erm, ran out of money when i was doing it....) and i do know it needs a new.... vacuum advance? (maybe i have the name of the part mixed up, maybe not... im refering to the part on the side of the distributer that has a vacuum hose going to the carb....

off to get a thermostate housing and bolts, gasket... might as well replace them while im replacing the thermostat, one bolt dont tighted down all the way (dont seem to leak thogh) and the gasket seems brittle..

of coarse, this is depending on price, the gasket is a must, and the bolts pretty much are too... the housing however, depends on price...

i am logged in here on my phone as well, so i can still check in and post as y'all reply, thanks a ton for the help..


as for the oil change, that will have to wait til tomorrow, but after calming down a bit, it seems that the oil just thinned out a lot, and that there is no water mixed with it.

_________________
1966 Dodge Dart

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38446 has a list of good engine info and tune-up techniques. Look for 'Valve Adjustment procedure'. When I did mine it cleared up a lot of problems...

Good luck!

_________________
~Less think, more do

Ok. Stop. Before you do anything else on your engine or spend any more money, you need to learn the basics of slant six maintenance. Look through the threads linked to on THIS page.

Of particular importance to you right now will be the following:

Valve adustment procedure

Tune-up recommendations

Slant sixes built through 1981 use solid (aka mechanical) valve lifters on the camshaft. This system requires periodic adjustment of the valve lash. Valve lash is the small amount of slack between the top of the valve stem and the rocker arm. This is done by using a feeler gauge and a wrench or socket turning the adjuster nut on the rocker arm.

Yes, the vacuum advance can is the thing on the side of the distributor with a hose going to the carburetor. If it is missing or no longer holds a vacuum then you should disconnect the vacuum line and plug it to avoid a vacuum leak.

If one bolt on the thermostat housing won't tighten all the way, then it might be a stripped bolt hole. Pick up a tube of RTV sealant while you are at the parts store. You might need it to get the thermostat housing to seal. You MUST replace the thermostat housing gasket whenever you pull it off the block. Verify that the bolt you are using is the right size and is not too long for the hole.

+2!