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| Torsion Bar upgrade Q https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31813 |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Torsion Bar upgrade Q |
It is time for new torsion bars & rear springs for the Dart. I just called firmfeel they recommend the .100" bars, as a second choice .940" bars. I found out that the rear springs offered by FF are MOPAR springs. Presently I have a .820" on the drivers side and a .890" on the passenger side, the car handles like crap need I say more. I don't race this car, but we do have a lot of twisty, hilly roads around here that demand, shall I say; sporting driving at times. I was wondering if any of you out there had any experience with the .100" bar. Would they be too stiff? I plan on installing sway bars, and new rear springs at the same time I do the torsion bars. |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:48 pm ] |
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I'm running 1.04" torsion bars on my '67 Valiant with QA1 Stocker Star shocks. The ride is firm, but never harsh or jarring. It's perfectly at home on the street, but unless you're willing to pay just over $140 for each shock absorber I would probably use the .940" bars and the ~$90 Edelbrock shocks. Leave the KYB shocks alone. Cars with KYBs ride worse with stock size torsion bars than my car does with the 1.04s. Also, do not put a rear sway bar on your car larger than 1/2". It may feel better in casual driving, but it will oversteer when you start pushing the limit. Put the rear sway bar money towards good shocks and you'll be much happier. What are you doing for wheels, tires and alignment? |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:28 pm ] |
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Presently I have the alignment at factory specs. One side is just on the ragged edge of in spec for camber due to bent metal. I plan on installing eccentric upper bushings (help parts) on that side to make for more adjustment of the upper control arm during the bar install. Running P205/70-14 tires on Rally Wheels. I was leaning to the .940's, thinking the .100" would be a bit stiff as it is 2.3 times stiffer than stock .820". The guy at FF has a 360 ci in his 65 Dart. It must be a few hundred pounds heaver than a 225. Quote: Bar
Diameter Rate Application Per Pair .820 82# Drag Racing $295 .880 115# Street/Strip $285 .940 155# Stock HP/Police $285 1.00 195# HD/Street $285 I'm open for improved alignment specs if you have any ideas. Also I was thinking of installing a set of subframe connectors, but no one makes a bolt on for the 67's. I think the later model connectors will work, but I would have to alter the front torque boxes to get access for bolting them up. |
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| Author: | Eric W [ Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:20 pm ] |
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If it where my car, here is what I would do. Use the .88" T-bars with 5 leaf rear springs. Get a 1 1/8" front sway bar, use 225/70R14 tires. A set of good quality gas shocks. You'll get a nice ride without beating yourself up, and with the big sway bar and wider tires, you'll be able to carve up some corners. My logic: A large sway bar does not care about straight roads or how a car rides going straight (soft or hard). It only cares about keeping the car level going around corners, whether the suspension is soft or hard. My Satellite has stock suspension, lowered about an inch in the front is the only modification and Monro Gas-matic shocks. With the 1.125" sway bar in the front it handles better than a 3600+lb old car should, limited only by using fairly narrow 215/70 15 tires. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Josh, I was able to retrieve the front end settings from the front end alignment guy the other day. These settings are a bit out, and at the time the guy told me that on one side there was something bent a little and he got as close as possible to factory camber settings, they are as follows: Factory specs for power steering cars: Castor +.25 to +1.25 deg. L & RT Camber +.25 to +.75 (+.50 preferred) deg. left, 0 to 0.5 (+.25 preferred) deg. Rt. Toe 3/32" to 5/32" As set: Left ---- cross ---- Right Castor: -3.9 deg. ---- 1.0 --- -0.2 deg. Camber: +0.8 deg. ---- 1.0 --- -0.2 Deg. Toe: .10 deg. ---- --- .10 deg. I have purchased some "Problem Solver" upper control arm eccentric bushings to correct the Camber situation. Also when I rebushed the front end this spring I used the old stile conical strut bushing. Perhaps I should swap those out for the two part later, or C body type bushings, as the caster is way out. The smallest rear antsway bar I can find is 3/4" dia. from Addco. I don't mind a little over steer, we get a lot of that around here from Late fall to March, its a way of life. Got any advice for more optimal settings concerning this old heap? |
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| Author: | sandy in BC [ Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:03 am ] |
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With your small tires I think the big torsion bars are counter productive. I like a soft T bar with the best shocks you can afford and a big front sway bar. On the rear 5 leaf springs and no sway bar will suffice. I see lots of cars that would be unmanagable on washboard gravel by being way too stiff...... |
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| Author: | dank10fenny [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:51 pm ] |
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when i got my new t bars i loved it, cornering was great, almost as good response as adding a front sway bar. the only thing i didnt like was not being able to fly over the speed bumps. |
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| Author: | theslantingsix [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:32 pm ] |
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for subframe connectors check at summitracing.com they got conectors for the 111 wheel base and the 108 |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I got a set of unpainted MOPAR bolt on sub frame connectors, and a shock stud from Mancini Racing in Michigan. Came to 171 bucks with shipping. The shock stud would not bolt on and still allow the nut of the spring retaining"U" bolt to be tightened, too close. So I had to do a little cutting, drilling & welding to the stud and spring bracket. |
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| Author: | 2 Darts [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:24 pm ] |
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As far as setup is concerned, I'll go along with Sandy in BC. However, I would add the rear bar and replace the bushings with Polygraphite. Replacing live rubber bushings with new ones would help as well, but there would be less precision on the steering. Obviously, there's a difference of opinion on the rear anti-sway bar. IMO a front bar only will reduce body roll at the expense of more understeer, something most Mopars have plenty of as delivered from the factory. The rear bar counteracts that tendency. Ideally, I like the car to be able to take a balanced set in sweeping turns giving me ability to add throttle to get the rear end to gently slide out, and get off the throttle to put it back in line. |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:00 pm ] |
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Quote: Obviously, there's a difference of opinion on the rear anti-sway bar.
True, those that actually take their A body to race tracks and push them to the limit typically have no rear sway bar. Some use a very small one, like 1/2" diameter.
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