| Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/ |
|
| 2009 Must be the year of the dead slant.... https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33120 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | THOR [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2009 Must be the year of the dead slant.... |
I've got a good one here for y'all. '72 Valiant 225 1 bbl. Car belongs to SlantSixBob. We put a different carb on it a few months back (original carb was running rich and was worn extensively), and the car ran great. Then the timing set went bye bye (was original). Replaced the timing set with a new set from Autoscones, got the car back together. SL6Bob then bought a new BBS from SL6Dan, and installed it. After a valve lash and base timing adjustment, the car was running perfectly. Valves were lashed at .012, and .022. Timing set at 12 BTDC. Purring like a kitten. I dropped it into Reverse, and we started hearing a bit of a scraping noise coming from somewhere. I put it into neutral, and the sound went away. put it into drive, and again with the scraping type noise. At this point I asked Bob if he had enough trans fluid in there. The transmission did shift quickly and firmly into gear, and there didn't seem to be any issues from observation alone. About the time I asked about the trans fluid, the car sputtered and died. Great... Locked trans into park, and hit the key. It sounded fine as it was cranking, but it wasn't firing well enough to get the car to run. Much like the way it would sound if the timing were too retarded. I advanced the timing, still nothing. All I got was blueish smoke out the carb when I stopped cranking. If I pumped the pedal it would sound like it was trying to start, but would never actually run. Checked the dizzy gear, gear looked fine. Checked the pickup in the dizzy, perfect gap. We have plenty of fuel with a nice healthy pump shot, and we have a beautiful blue spark out the wires to the plugs. But no start.... The only thing that changed from the point in time it was running, to the time it died, was the transmission shifts, and subsequent scraping noises. The cam sprocket bolt was torqued properly to 30ft. lbs. Any ideas? ~THOR~ |
|
| Author: | Reed [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Have you checked the distributor gear for cracks? i once had one that cracked and would stay in one piece on the shaft but would flex and gradually get out of time. Then if I cranked a bunch it would get back in time and hte motor would run. It mae for some frustrating diagnosis time until i found it. |
|
| Author: | THOR [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I checked it over pretty close visually. This gear is basically white, so any cracks would stand out better than the darker ones. Far as I can tell, it's fine. I even advanced timing by 1 tooth to see, and nothing changed. After returning it to 12 BTDC, it stopped blowing smoke out the carb when I let go, but still no actual start. ~THOR~ |
|
| Author: | makapipi [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | scraping noise then no start |
could it be the flex plate stuck? maybe try turning crank manually |
|
| Author: | THOR [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The engine cranks over no problem, and the starter will crank the engine just like it should. No problems there... ~THOR~ |
|
| Author: | Eric W [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I thought a blue spark was weak...shouldn't it be white? |
|
| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
White when your in a vacuum, but usually bright blue is what we see. The high energy electron flow ionizes the oxygen in the air...thus the blue spark color. |
|
| Author: | bludev [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | hmm |
you might have broken the flex plate....have you checked to make sure the motor is actualy turning over? or if you just hear the starter turning over the tranny? had this happen to my pick-me up i had a bolt work free got loged and took out the 4 ends of my flex plate |
|
| Author: | Eric W [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Gotcha on the spark color Ted. My bad. I know you said the timing set was new, but could it have failed? Where was the timing set made? Do the valves move when you turn the engine over? Trying to give you some ideas here.. |
|
| Author: | THOR [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2009 Must be the year of the dead slant.... |
Quote: It sounded fine as it was cranking, but it wasn't firing well enough to get the car to run. Much like the way it would sound if the timing were too retarded. I advanced the timing, still nothing. All I got was blueish smoke out the carb when I stopped cranking. If I pumped the pedal it would sound like it was trying to start, but would never actually run.
~THOR~ Quote: The engine cranks over no problem, and the starter will crank the engine just like it should.
I really do appreciate the replys, but I've already answered the questions pertaining to engine cranking.No problems there... ~THOR~ Far as the timing set goes, it is probably china made, seeing as how it came from autozone. I suppose it is "possible" for the timing set to have failed. Unfortunately, I will need to tear all of that crap back apart to check. What is the possibility of the little dowel on the crank snapping off, the sprocket spinning 180, and then partially reseating? Or maybe spinning some degree amount then stopping thus throwing the timing way off, but allowing the engine to sound like it is cranking correctly? I will get my compression tester on Monday, and get some compression numbers... ~THOR~ |
|
| Author: | terrylittlejohn [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
your on the right track with the cam gear pin, if you had a timing chain failure the pin might have been damaged and failed when a load was put on the engine. |
|
| Author: | turboram [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I bought my truck not running and when it would crank it tried to start but would only cough when I removed the timing cover( because of a scraping noise)I found that the cam bolt was out 6 threads and the cam gear was worn on the dowel pin, never jumped a tooth.when I torqued it down it started right up. just a thought maybe the pin did break.check #1 tdc and see if both valves are just closed |
|
| Author: | stonethk [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Did you ever figure out where/what that scraping noise came from-that would be my first concern. |
|
| Author: | THOR [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Nope, havent had a chance/weather to tear it down.... the more I think about it, the more probable the cam sprocket issue seems to be. I will get it checked as soon as I have the time and weather. Thanks for the ideas guys, I really do appreciate it. I don't think the trans had anything to do with it...it just happened to be right about when I shifted the trans that something in the engine would fail. Now I gotta take it back apart... well practice makes perfect!  ~THOR~ |
|
| Author: | slantasaurus [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Before I tore it down, I would pop the dizzy cap off and make sure the rotor was turning. Much easier than taking the valve cover or front cover off. It won't solve anything, but it might answer some questions before you tear it down again. |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC-08:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|