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1963 question for locksmiths/door experts
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Author:  sixsignet [ Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  1963 question for locksmiths/door experts
Maybe it was overkill, but I removed my driver's door lock, soaked it in PB Blaster overnight, flushed that with brake cleaner and packed it with white lithium grease.
All this because the key wouldn't go all the way in, and squirting unfreezer (it's about 30 degrees average right now) stuff, graphite and oil into it didn't help. After it soaked in PB Blaster, the key went in, turned smoothly, and back out much better.

Now, my question:
The stamped arm that the link connects to slips off pretty easily.
It seems like it slips off too easily.
Is it designed that way, and does the link that connects to it work to keep it from coming off?

It really seems loose, but I never had it come apart inside the door and I don't think I wore anything when I slipped it off.

Should I try to swedge the arm, so that the ID of the hole is closed a little, so that I have to work a little to slip it on?

There is a little ridge the arm has to fit over.
If I put the lock trim side down on a table and try to lift it by the arm, the arm slips off the lock.
I'd rather pound on the arm that was made on a punch-press instead of pounding the soft cast metal and delicate workings of the lock.

Should I just reassemble it the way it is?

Please, let there be a fine, collectible mopar lock expert out there among the Beavis and Butthead fans.

Heh heh heh heh. He said in and out and grease. Heh heh.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Y'need to flush out the grease, or your lock will soon be in much worse condition than it started out. Spray silicone lube is okay; grease is not.
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:53 am ]
Post subject: 
sixsignet:
Quote:
Maybe it was overkill, but I removed my driver's door lock, soaked it in PB Blaster overnight, flushed that with brake cleaner and packed it with white lithium grease.
All this because the key wouldn't go all the way in, and squirting unfreezer (it's about 30 degrees average right now) stuff, graphite and oil into it didn't help. After it soaked in PB Blaster, the key went in, turned smoothly, and back out much better.
Car lock maintenance do's & don'ts.

Do not use lock deicer, it is just salt water & alcohol, which reacts with pot metal lock guts. There are brass parts, pins or wafers, that a key repositions to align a shear line so the cylinder can be turned. Salt water causes a galvanic reaction eventually welding the brass to the pot metal, resulting in not being able to insert key into lock, or turn it.

Do not use as a final lubricant oil based products such as WD 40, and never grease they attract dirt which will bind up pins and wafers. Use only small amount of graphite or silicone spray.

Using WD 40 to flush out dirt is OK but has to be removed with a solvent such as carb, or brake cleaner, and dried before final lubricant is applied.

Chrysler locks are of the pin tumbler type up to the early nineties at which time a switch to wafer type tumblers was made. See example of pin tumbler lock:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock


Now, my question:
Quote:
The stamped arm that the link connects to slips off pretty easily.
It seems like it slips off too easily.
Is it designed that way, and does the link that connects to it work to keep it from coming off?
This has me confused. Are you referring to the tail, cam, or paw attached to the back end of the lock cylinder that has about 90 degs. of rotational free play, or some mechanism housed within the door that the lock paw pushes or pulls to operate that linkage? See center of page 116 for a later 1966 and up example of a door lock:
http://www.hatainc.com/gsa/gsa-catalog-pdf/bwd.pdf

Generally the paw is held onto the end of the cylinder by an "E" clip, or a rolled pin and not pressed on.
Author:  sixsignet [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Glad I checked before re-installing it. I put grease in it a couple years ago, which could explain why it jammed up.

wjajr:
Paw would be a good name for the arm on the back.
It looks like the 63 locks are a little different.
The paw has two 90 degree bands in it, so the end with the hole for the linkage is offset 3/16 towards the outside of the door.
It looks like there might be room for a very thin clip, but there is no wear evidence on the paw indicating there ever was one.
On the side facing the lock, there is shiny wear were it's rubbed against the lock body. The side away from the lock: no ring or scratches.

Could be the early A-bodies had an older design than the ones you are thinking of.

Or maybe the old clip always moved with the paw, and it came off when I removed it.

With my luck, this design was only used on the 63 Valiants and Darts - which has happened before. :cry:
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
sixsignet:
Quote:
Could be the early A-bodies had an older design
You are correct, Chrysler door locks were modified in 1966 and remained unchanged well into the 1980s. I have dug through my pile of automotive lock stuff and can't find a pre or post 66' door lock, and I don't recall ever having worked on a pre 66" MOPAR when I had my lock shop that I closed in 1996. Additional digging through my old catalogs, and I can't find a listing for one either, read no picture. So yes, your lock may be hard to find new, don't worry, a good lock smith can make a used one work with your key, and would have a clip for yours if needed. That aside, these devices all work about the same, just the paw has different configurations, and methods of connecting to the linkage (rods etc.) in the door that operate the latch.

Below I have an example of a GM lock that has a 90 degree bend in the tail (paw) that slides into a hole in the door linkage. You can make out a little clip that holds the tail to the lock cylinder. Is this the general shape of your device?

Image

Below is a 66' and up Chrysler trunk lock with a flat paw with a small hole in its end where a rod pushes through. Disregard the little return spring, a door lock would not have one, but the cylinder would be the same. Is yours kinda like this one but with a 90 degree bend in the paw? Note "E" clip holding paw to cylinder.

Image

Check the bottom of your door cavity for a missing clip. Yes, door lock linkage (paw, rods, connectors) can get sloppy.
Author:  sixsignet [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
It is similar to the one at the bottom, but the pawl is shorter, more complicatedly shaped, has a step or stagger in it so that the end that the link goes through is closer to the outside of the door.

The pawl is stamped from thinner metal, about half the thickness of a n old mopar key, and the end that fits on the lock is a very thin loop.
There is a post that sticks out the back of the cast lock part that limits the rotation of the pawl to about 45 degrees.

The body of the lock is shorter than that one, though.
That clip would be too thick.
A .020 thick clip would fit.

Ah! Found a pic. No view of the back, but you can see the basic shape.
The one on the left gives a better picture of the thickness of the pawl.
Image
Author:  65Dodge100 [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
If all else fails, you can look at the other door.

Danny
Author:  sixsignet [ Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd hate to peel everything off that one.
Everything's 45 years old, and I don't like to disturb stuff I don't need to.
I have some silicone lubricant around somewhere...


Will Break Free CLP work OK?
It works good on guns.

It's dinosaur-based instead of silicone-based.
Author:  wjajr [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Will Break Free CLP work OK?
It works good on guns.

As long as there is no oily-sticky residoue left to atract fine grit from air born dust. Probably not.
Author:  wjajr [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:16 am ]
Post subject: 
sixsignet:
Quote:
Now, my question:
The stamped arm that the link connects to slips off pretty easily.
Just to clarify; do you mean the connection between the paw & wire rod, where the rod sticks through the little hole in the paw and is not secured. Or, the connection of the paw to the back of the lock cylinder?

Nice pics by the way...
Author:  sixsignet [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
The paw to the back of the lock.
Author:  wjajr [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
I apologize for taking so long to get to this point.

You may be able to fit an "E" or "C" clip on the cylinder to hold the paw on place. For a few bucks a real lock smith shop, not Joe's True Value Hardware, could fix this up for you, they always have a bunch of little spare parts handy that can be cobbled up.
Author:  sixsignet [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks. I found one of these outside circlips - 3/8 inch if it was in the right box - at the hardware store. It appears to be thin enough that it won't bind the pawl to the shaft, which appears to be important in this design.

Image

Glad I checked with you guys before putting it back in the door loaded with white grease and no clip.
Author:  wjajr [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a beautiful thing if it works! A lot of hot air for a 50 cent fix, my kind of fix though.

My snow blower has been busting my spherical objects today during our 20 inch snow dump. A $1.44 fix took care of it. Funny how that thing only craps out during a storm...
Author:  sixsignet [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
30 cents.
It definitely will work longer than if I installed it full of white grease.

In case anyone from The Future is reading this, I found a guy selling some NOS locks.
He said there is no clip and the pawls cannot be removed.
The factory stamped the end, making it flare out like a rivet.

The thin lip mine has is probably worn down and the ring part of the pawl is a little worn or stretched oval too.

Still, it looks like the little circlip will work.
There's enough gap for the pawl to rotate without binding.
Hopefully, there's enough material in that lip that it will survive and hold the clip on. I probably will put a dab of anti-seize between the clip and the pawl.

If I don't post another message about this in the next ten years, consider it fixed.
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