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VR/Ammeter problems (again)
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33579		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dusterguy225 [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  VR/Ammeter problems (again)
Sigh... Where should I start? I have gone through this so many times it feels like my life is in a loop...

I am on my 6th, yes 6th, voltage regulator. Its a Napa Echlin and so far it has lasted the longest, but its starting to go sadly. I have had my alternator tested, battery tested etc. (all good) Somthing keeps frying my VRs and making them put out too much current. At idle, the ammeter needle jumps a little, especially in gear. My lights flicker too. When driving or at fast idle, its dead at 0 and does not move, and my lights don't flicker one bit. Now the needle has migrated to a steady 10-15 amps driving, and I feer it will keep going higher and leave me stranded or overcharge my battery. Can anyone help me figure out what is going on, and how to fix it? I am tired of having to get a new VR every month or so! :x

And my ammeter is not the stock one in the dash, it is an aftermrket one.
Author:  THOR [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Where is your regulator mounted? Can you take some voltage readings at all connectors in the charging system and post them?

It almost sounds like a bad wire. My guess would be one of the field winding wires. If they are bad at any point, then all of the amperage goes through a smaller part of the wire, causing a massive voltage drop, and thus, tells the alternator to put out more juice.

Could be, but may not be. Resistance checks across the wire won't help. A voltage drop test is what should be done. Simply take a DVOM and put 1 lead at each end of the wire to be tested. Set the meter to DC volts, start the car, and watch to see if there is any voltage drop. If there is anything above .5v reading on the meter, replace the wire.

Do this to all the wires involved in the charging circuit. Wires may show test good until a load is put through them, and that's what you are checking for. Make sure they are in fact, good.

Good luck!

~THOR~
Author:  Eric W [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I got one of the Transpro adjustible VR's and so far am happy with it. Puts out about 13.2 volts at idle, about 14.2 with the lights, heater fan and wipers on just above idle.

Edit: Its Transpo #C8313, got mine at http://www.ase-supply.com.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Keep in mind also that the parts store "tests" you can have done on items like alternators and starters are really very rough and there are many problems they won't see.
Author:  KBB_of_TMC [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I've generally been pretty happy with Standard Brand electrical parts (except O2 sensors) - their Blue Streak line (if available) is worth the extra money. Right now I'm running a MP resto regulator and it's been working fine.
Author:  dusterguy225 [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Where is your regulator mounted? Can you take some voltage readings at all connectors in the charging system and post them?
It is mounted in the stock location on the inner fender. What would I use to take those readings? A miltimeter? And what do you mean by "all connectors"?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I've generally been pretty happy with Standard Brand electrical parts (except O2 sensors)
Interesting - I like Standard O2 sensors fine. What trouble have you run into?
Author:  KBB_of_TMC [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject: 
A few years ago, I had 4 Standard O2 sensors go bad in a row; all lasted only 1-2 K miles. I put in Motorcrafts and never had another failure; previously, I'd used Bosch w/o any unusual failures.

It may have just been a bad production run; I replaced my old ones just due to mileage (there were working fine at the time), then fought with the Standards for a few months, then went to the Motorcraft. I became an expert at changing O2 sensors at the side of the road in the rain and wasn't happy about it.
Author:  dusterguy225 [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, Guess what... It failed today. Its reading 30 amps all the time, driving and idleing. Is there anyway I can put new charging system wires in it, to make absolutly sure there are no shorts and such? And maybe an ammeter shunt or somthing?
Author:  bigslant6fan [ Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  alternator
I,m thinking maybe the armature might have a partial short in it causing it to draw too much current.This might explain why it "works" but slowly cooks the regulator.I,d try changing it with a known good used one.maybe one of your mopar buddies could let you borrow one.
Author:  KBB_of_TMC [ Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
You might try running the car w/ the FLD disconnected and see that it doesn't charge, then measure the FLD current while it is running - it ought not to exceed 4A or so (check the FSM).

It is easy to open up a Mopar alternator - just remove the brushes and then the screws open the case. You don't need to remove the pulley just to examine the field and stator windings for damage, and you'll find if there's any debries in there causing intermittant shorts.

That said, I've had alt's that were throwing sparks that didn't damage the regulator.
Author:  dusterguy225 [ Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
It does not charge when the fields are disconnected. I want to get ahold of a new or NOS alternator, anyone know where I can get one?

Oh and another thing, I took my Echlin voltage regulator off and it has the very friendly words of "Made in China" stamped on the back. I asked the guy at Napa and it turns out that Echlin parts are no longer made in the USA. I feel I was cheated out of my money. If I wanted cheap chinese crap, I would have bought the cheaper one.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
It does not charge when the fields are disconnected.
That's normal.
Quote:
I want to get ahold of a new or NOS alternator, anyone know where I can get one?
Yep, you can get one from Old Car Parts Northwest.
Quote:
Oh and another thing, I took my Echlin voltage regulator off and it has the very friendly words of "Made in China" stamped on the back. I asked the guy at Napa and it turns out that Echlin parts are no longer made in the USA.
I'm not sure they're telling you the truth. Echlin was bought by Standard Motor Products a few years ago, and the last time I bought a VR-38 (2 months ago) it was American-made. There might be some funny business going on at your local NAPA. On the other hand, even if what the counterman told you were true, how did you not notice "Made in China" on the back of the regulator before you installed it…?
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
dusterguy225,

I wanted to find a regulator that had more output at 600 rpm in gear with the wipers, heater and lights on........I went through about (6) of them. I finally found a MP repro from Summit Racing that put out some nice voltage. However, be sure the unit is well grounded. You may want to run an additional ground wire to it from the alternator. If it is not well grounded it will cause problems and not charge and burn up the regulator, etc....

You might luck out at the junkyard finding an original alternator and then having it rebuilt. We have a place here in the Puget Sound called the "Rebuilder" located in Kent, that only does starters and alternators. Great guys to work with and can rebuild them at a fraction of the cost for rebuilt unit and they guarantee their work! :D
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ted: Sounds like you got a good working regulator. Carry a spare, tho. They're pretty to look at, but those MP-repro voltage regulators are Taiwanese, and not famous for their reliability. Usually low charging voltage at idle is not a regulator problem.
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